Afraid things are getting messed up again-ideas & support please?

[Vicku]

Hi! Sorry if this becomes a bit long, but if anyone can be bothered to help me with some ideas I would be very grateful as I'm starting to feel lost and afraid things will go bad here again

DD, just turned 2, has started waking earlier again and is showing signs of OT. She's just started nursery/daycare 3 days/week and I know this is the reason why things are off, along with teething the 2nd year molars, but I really can't think what to do or how to handle it best.

To briefly go over our sleep history DD has always had less than average sleep, last winter we struggled a lot with EW and some NW, had a rough transition to 1 nap at 16-18 mo with loads of accumulated OT and tried all the tricks to try to get over that and onto a good routine. Early bedtimes didn't work on her as she would still only take her 10 (maximum 10.5) hrs at night and so would have even earlier wakings. She just wouldn't sleep more than 10.5 hrs no matter what I tried.
Anyway, the way we finally cracked it was by accepting that she only needed 10.5 hrs at night and gave her a later bedtime (8:30) to allow for a more acceptable wake up (7:00). I also figured out she could handle longer A time in am than pm, and when I finally found what worked for her she started sleeping better than ever and has done so since... until now.

Our days at home look like this (or did before things went wonky):
7am wake up
1pm-3pm nap
8:30 in bed lights out

This gives her on average 12.5 hrs/24 and she's really thrived on this routine. Woken up happy and not been OT for bed or naps.

Now since starting daycare I feel like things are going out the window as she wakes at 6 usually and at nursery she does nap but only 1hr-ish. They nap at 12 there so not sure if her shorter nap is because of UT or being disturbed by the other kids. The staff there has said she goes down quite easily though. As 1 til 8:30 is a very long A time and she's seemed tired in the evenings I've occasionally done earlier bedtimes but she still doesn't do more than 10.5 max and so feels like it's reinforcing the EW and today she was unable to stay up past 11:45am and crashed for her nap but is now awake at 1:15. She was very OT this morning
DD is spirited and very sensitive to OT. Normally she doesn't really show tired signs until OT which is getting grumpy and hyper, only looks tired when exhausted.

I'm just feeling lost in how to approach this best and what to do??? Please help!

[skatty]

Hi Vick I am sorry I don't have any solutions but want to offer support and (((hugs))). It is difficult if the longest night she will do is 10½, I guess a catnap is out of the question these days? I think she may be a bit UT for her nap at 12 if she is used to going at 1 but then again if she is waking an hour earlier it is the same A isn't it so maybe it is the nursery setting  To help her not get so OT by bedtime could she have some quiet time in her room alone on nursery days? I do this with Leorah at least once a day though it is rarely quiet  I put her a cd on and I leave a dummy in her reach so she thinks she has tricked me and she will lie in her den and look at books (or she will empty every toy she has on the floor and have a party!) Perhaps she could have some books in her cot? Maybe her naps at the nursery will become longer it is still very new, is she on the mats on the floor now? It is so frustrating to have a perfect routine go out of the window  Her teeth probably have had a part to play, will the people at the nursery give her soem meds before her nap on bad days and also do you think she could be waking hungry from her nap as she doesn't really eat lunch at nursery?

I hope someone who has been in your shoes can help but many (((hugs))) to you and Lois from me and Leorah xxx

[Vicku]

Thanks Katt! Support goes a long way
Same last night, put her down 30 mins earlier, but woke 6:25. It's not that 6:30ish is such a bad wake up time (anything after 6 is ok I think) but that she's not getting much sleep really. I mean she has 11.5 hrs A time/day on a 10.5hr night and 2 hr nap, so when only having 1hr nap it's 12.5 hrs A which is A LOT! Not sure about cat nap, maybe I should try it. We used to do the odd 2-nap day to catch up but now she's 2 it just seems strange but I might try it today if she takes a short nap again. I've been wondering whether I should try to adjust her home-routine to the nursery one but was expecting this to sort of happen as the time goes back again to wintertime as her 1pm nap will naturally be at 12 then, but I don't know when that is plus that'll mean very early mornings again. If only she'd catch up at night what she looses in the day If I could get her to sleep 11.5 or 12 hrs at night she'd do fine on a 1 hr nap I think but just have no idea how to do that, or if it's even possible???
I was thinking UT for nap at nursery but they've said she's been seeming tired and falls asleep quickly, so maybe all the activity at nursery is tiring her out quicker? Yes, she sleeps on a mattress on the floor. Oh, and you have a point she might be waking from hunger as she's not eating at lunch there. Lunch there is also an hr earlier than ours, so she might not be hungry enough plus the food there is "strange" to her and she is a VERY selective eater.

She's actually been seeking out the quiet time in her room when we come home. She climbs into her cot and sits there with her dummies and sometimes some books (which she has been tearing the pages out of lately ) and also seems to just want to sit and watch tv like a zombie for a while... I might have a chat with her carer at nursery and see if she thinks theres' any was Lois will sleep longer there.

Thanks so much for your support and ideas Katt! An outside view can make a big difference.

Surely someone else must have some ideas too??? Would it be worth taking the risk of trying a really early bedtime and see what happens in case she now will do more than 10.5hrs ? Or trying catnaps at this age, any experience? Earlier nap to combat the OT?? Going by A times?? I'm still lost and unsure what to do today...

[skatty]

Hi Vicku, I wonder if you should try the early bedtime? If you do it the night before a no nursery day, prepare yourself for the possibility of a really early wake then maybe she will surprise you? At least if it goes t*ts up you can put her down early for her nap, she makes sleep up at home at naptime doesn't she?

If she is going to her cot with her dummies I reckon you could turn the light out and maybe she'd fall asleep without books, definitely worth a try. Do you know when the clocks change? I have always found that L will go back to her usual times after a few days so I ma trying not to stress about it. I hope the nap at nursery starts to extend, fingers crossed 

[em_here]

}}}}}}}}}}}}}}hugs{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ sweetie xxxx

[Vicku]

Thanks for the hugs Emma!

Katt, I've been wondering if it might just be worth a try too. Not sure just how early to go for though? An hr earlier or more? Maybe 7pm, that's 1.5hrs early, and be prepared for a 5am wake up Then if it's on a no nursery day I could always try for a 2 nap day if we have a very EW. The thing is I'm a bit woried I'll confuse her even more and make things worse...

She did make up a bit at nap time, but yesterday had that really short one. Today I put her down 20 mins early for nap and she seemed so ready, was out in a few minutes. Still alseep now 1hr 40 min later, so at least a decent nap today however long she sleeps. She is so sensitive to OT and getting into a cycle of it is very hard to get out of if left too long, so perhaps the earlier bedtimes/naptimes could help prevent that.

I just looked in my diary and summer time ends 26 Oct,  a Sunday, so a while there yet. The only reason she started sleeping til 7 and not 6 (although that was 4 or 5 before that) was really the time change as she's still on the same routine as she was before, just an hr later...

[Vicku]

Just to update... we tried an earlier bedtime (about an hr) but she wasn't asleep til close to normal bedtime anyway. She took a nearly 2.5 hr nap this pm though which I was very pleased about. She cried out just after I posted but then fell back asleep. Was crying a bit when woke up and very grumpy in pm, so not sure if it's OT or teeth or both. She's at nursery tomorrow and I'll try have a chat to them about if they think they can possibly extend her nap in any way (in case they wake her or anythin but wouldn't think so)

[skatty]

That's great that she took such a good nap, I think it would be best to only try an EB on a short nap day. I hope the nursey can help extend her nap, sometimes when L wakes early she only needs a bit of help resettling, I give her a dummy in her mouth and one in the hand and a little stroke of the cheek and she will go off again if tired enough.

Good nap and sleep vibes for today 

[Vicku]

1hr 50 nap today at nursery and woke up 6:30 this morning. She seems less OT so hopefully we're managing to turn it around
Your vibes must have worked!

[skatty]

Yay, well done Lois 

[Vicku]

In bed at 8pm last night (so 30 mins early) and slept til 7 Had a NW where she cried out for mummy but went back to sleep quite quickly at 4am, nightmares I guess... but an 11hr night is so very rare for her, I'm very pleased and *I* am so much more rested at 7 than 6
Taking Lois to a play place today with my friend and her little boy, Lois' best friend and will try to be back for normal nap time at 1 at least.
Fingers crossed things continue to get better and stay good!

[skatty]

Wow that is fantastci and good morning, I don't normally bump into you this early 

[Melsy]

How did the nap go??  The play date sounds like fun!!!!

Mel

[Vicku]

Hi Mel and Katt!

Mel, I posted about the nap yesterday a bit further back... but she did 1hr 50 mins! Yay!

[Melsy]

Hope she is back on track!!!  I actually meant the nap after the playdate...but maybe it hasn't happened yet??   

Mel