Longer naps, catnap or not, bedtime when?

[UlrikaandOlle]

Hi, my DS is 6.5 months and I find it hard to know how to structure days now that he finally (!) takes two longer naps, and still seems to want that 30 minute late afternoon catnap. I can't seem to fit in 2.75-3 hours of A time properly. OK, here's a typical day.

Wake up 6.30/7am

Sleep 9/9.30am for 1-1.5 hours  (he seems tired after only 1.5-2 hours of  A time , but I always try to keep him awake for at least 2h15min - what should I aim for?)

Sleeps again around 1pm for 1.5-1.75 hours (at least 2h30 minutes of A time prior to this sleep, should I extend? He always wakes after 30-45 minutes, but I can easily extend the nap to 1.5 hours or more)

Might sleep again for max 30 minutes in the late afternoon, but here's where the "problem" starts. If I let him sleep, he either naps way too late (too close to bedtime at 7pm) or the A time will be only 2-2h30. If he doesn't sleep, the A time will be 3-4 hours and he gets OT.

What would an ideal EASY be in terms of timings at this age with or without the catnap. I just cannot get a perfect day with perfect A time and naps, without him being either OT or UT. (My DS is pretty fussy at bedtime and takes forever to settle. Sometimes he wakes in the night, or do EW...)

Your advice is much appreciated!!

[kellmay]

Hi
My bub is the same age and we are having some probs with the 3-2  trans as well, the girls gave me some good advise, you might like to check it out.
Try not to get to caught up in the clock and watch your baby for cues and use the clock as a guide only. No two days are going to be the same , thats my understanding.

[brenda2]

at 6.5 mo average A time is about 2.5 hours but that is just a guide and his A time may well be different throughout the day.  sounds like he is taking 2 good naps for you so that means you probably have the A time right for those ones.

i would still offer the catnap but make it even shorter before you get rid of it as you are right, 3 to 4 hours before bed is too long and may result in Nws.  if you offer the catnap you can push bedtime a bit later to compensate so he is tired enoug hto go to sleep for the night.

2 naps only works best when A time is about 3 hours.  so keep extending and when he getrs close to 3 hours you know you can probably drop the catnap and go for earlier bedtime.

[UlrikaandOlle]

Thank you both for good input. I will slowly try to extend A time to reach 3 hours within a couple of weeks, and reducing the catnap. As long as I still keep the catnap, does the A time need to be as long as 2.5hours before bedtime sleep?

I know every baby is different, but what would you say is "normal" naptimes when having 2 naps? You see, I am a bit confused since most of my friends adopted "Gina Ford" naptimes which is a short nap in the morning and a 2h nap between 12.30-2.30pm. They are happy with this and say that the midday nap is kept for years and is convenient when you have a toddler and a baby sleeping at the same time of the day. But since I am a BW believer I do two naps of 1.5 hours a day, where the midday nap is more in the early afternoon. When having only one nap, do you merge the two and have them in between (sort of 12.30-ish...?)

And one more question: Should you always aim for a 12hours day? When and why 11 or 13 hours?

[L76]

Hi there

Your post sounds exactly like our routine at the moment!!!! I might as well have written it!!!

My LO is 7.5 months and I have been experimenting recently with naps and times and like you have ended up completely confused!!!! Up until 2 weeks ago, I went completly by the clock and my LO gave the right cues exactly on time. However, whilst on holiday 2 weeks ago, we decided that she should and easily could extend her A time from 2.25 hours. Our previous routine looked like this:

7am wake
9 sleep
10/10.30 wake
12.30 sleep
2/2.30 wake
catnap @4.30
7pm bed

However, now her lunchtime nap is around 1ish (trying to extend longer) and we are desperately trying to drop the catnap. But more often than not, she wakes too early from the lunchtime nap ie at around 2.30/3ish which means she can't extend through to bedtime without it!

I have now resigned myself to the fact that she will do it of her own accord and is obviously a sleepy baby and decided that having the flexibility of being able to do either routine will work for me when I want to do things of an afternoon.

What I find really difficult is the fact that no two days are the same - some days she gives me the rubbing of the eyes and yawns so early on but others, like today, nothing! Don't you just wish they could speak sometimes!!!!!!

xxx

[UlrikaandOlle]

Hi Leanne, good to know that there are others in the same boat! I should probably just like you, stress less about this and let things change naturally. Have you ever done an early bedtime (when she didn't catnap)? What happened? Same wakeup time, or EWs? My DS wakes earlier than "normal", and I just don't know what I should do in terms of tweaking the routine to avoid this. But again, I will let time tell. We are dealing with a terrible cold at the moment, so the routine is all over the place right now...

[L76]

We are at the tail end of a cold too - and one that has lasted over 3 weeks which hasnt been great - the onset of the cold came at exactly the same time the first tooth popped its way through too - it was the morning we were going on holiday and as we landed she had a temperature of 38! Not fun!!!!

Anyway, am yet to do an early bedtime. On the days we've managed to drop the catnap, I have done everything to keep her going so that we end up getting her ready for bed at 6.30pm and by doing everything super slowly like bath, feed etc I can just about stretch her to nearing 7pm. It is a struggle though.

I tend to work everything round what time she wakes from her lunchtime nap. For example today, I heard her wake at 6.40am, left her til 7.15 and then put her back to bed at 9.00 as we have a swimming class on a Friday at 2.30pm which means an early lunchtime nap. However, she woke after 40mins so I thought, ok, fine, an early lunchtime nap is perfect now. But then the class was cancelled and by the time we'd done lunch etc, it was nearing 12.30pm so I ended up putting her to bed at 1pm so 3hr 20 A time - and at this time there was no rubbing of eyes etc. She went straight to sleep and still is!!!! 2hrs later!!!!

I think I'll let her have another 15mins or so (ok over the golden 2hrs but it could mean I don't have to do the catnap!).

She can wake anytime from 6.30 to around 7.15 most days. And I pretty much put her to bed at 7pm like clockwork. Not sure what an EW is classed as? Supposed if she woke at 6 then I'd class this as EW - what time does he wake?

How much A time can he take? I was convinced mine couldn't do much at all then yesterday at nursery she refused her AM nap (they took her out in the buggy and she is so nosy that she never sleeps out and about). So she went from 7am through to 12.40pm without any sleep!!!!! She then only had 40mins at lunchtime (bound to be because she was OT) and I gave her an hour at 4.15pm. I thought I was in for a bad night as a result but other than a few murmorings after an hour of going to bed, not a peep out of her til 6.40am. So, am now thinking that I just need to chill out a bit more and realise that perhaps she can be more flexible than I thought!!!!!!!

xxx

[brenda2]

i would say normal nap times when having 2 naps is 1.5 to 2 hours each nap.  at this age 2 long naps is a better approach.  as they get closer to age 11 or 12 months you may do what your friends are doing with limiting the am nap and going for a longer pm nap around 1. or 2.  but he is way too young for this yet, it will just result in OT and too long before bed.

since you asked...you go to 1 nap usually between 12-18 mo so he is young to be thinking about it yet but usually you would limit the am nap and have the pm nap moving closer to noonish until the am nap dissappears, but he's a long ways off doing that.

as for how long his day should be 12 is a good guide.  if he isn't a long night sleeper then you may want to do 13 hours day and 11 hours at night.  but when you drop the catnap better to move bedtime earlier to avoid OT which would mean as close to a 12 hour day as you can do.  i found before my LO dropped her catnap (from 3 to 2 and again from 2 to 1) she was doing around a 13 or 14 hour day to fit in all the naps and A time and then after she dropped it it went back to a 12 hour day.

[UlrikaandOlle]

Thanks Brenda for support & information! We have spent the weekend in hospital with little Olle struggling to breath and later diagnosed with severe croup.  He is fine now, but you can imagine how his naps and nightime sleep have been... non-existant. We are back home now and I thought whilst we were in hospital that there are worse things than sleep/A time issues (an un-well baby for example), and I would just leave it altogether.

However, now I am back at it again... thinking of what I do wrong, when he doesn't settle. OK, he is still having a bad cold and is coughy, but here are my questions:

Why did it take 1 hour of playing, rolling, crawling and whinging (no crying) for him to settle for his 1st nap? The A time came up to 3 hours (put him down after 2 hours when he was rubbing his eyes). Can it be that I have got him used to sleep in his pram under a dark blanket where he can't roll or doesn't get distracted (he settles within 2 minutes, when I put him in the pram at home and he sleeps for ages)? How can I make him go down quicker and easier in his cot, like he used to?

Why is it that only DH manages to settle DS at night? We both do what we've always have been doing (sound machine, hand on chest or back). He just cries and cries when I am in the room, but calms down when DS takes over... I can't help but feel rejected.

[brenda2]

sorry to hear he's been sick.  it may take a little while for things to get back to normal in this case.

at 6.5 mo normal A time is about 2.5 hours.  so putting him down at 2 hours was probably a bit too soon.  unless he's still very tired from being sick (which may cause A times to be shorter and makes it really hard to tell when to put them down  )  if he went down after an hour of rolling around and then had a good sleep (1.5 hours)  i'd say he's ready for longer A times than you've been giving him.  if however after the 3 hours A time he only did a 30 min nap he may have been OT by the time he got to sleep and then it's a settling problem because he's used to the pram (prop).  kwim?

to make him go down easier make sure he is tired enough when you are putting him down, i think he needs more than 2 hours.  make sure the room is dark.  you could swaddle but it's a bit late to be starting that.

my Lo goes through phases.  sometimes DH has an easier time settling her and sometimes i do.  don't take it personally.  if DH is around and he can settle DS better then let him do it and count yourself lucky that you don't have to be in there while he screams.  my DD settled better for DH around the time of SA because she didn't really want him to pick her up and cuddle her (this is what i think anyway).  if i went in all she wanted was cuddles and to be held.  if he went in she took one look at him and it was if she said well i don't want you so i may as well go back to sleep.  she acted the same when my mother was visiting.  my mom could settle her in no time and for me she would just scream.  that's how i interpreted it anyway if it makes you feel any better!