13 month old EW's, what's going on?!?!

[deckchariot]

Nicole - I think your routine looks good.  Other than getting up before the crack of dawn - does it seem to be working (in terms of Hayden not getting OT)?  How long have you been doing the switch?

One thing I know moms have done with EWs is establish a set routine (like what Nicole posted), get that really going well, and then begin shifting everything by 15 min.  So instead of starting the day at 5, start at 5:15 (even if she's awake earlier - unless she's screaming bloody murder of course, then get her), first nap then at 9:15, etc. - just shifting everything by 15 min.  Then keep doing that every few days and the idea is that the whole day will gradually shift.  I've never tried it, but I'm told it does work.

[marensmama]

Oh today's the first attempt at that routine... daycare was letting her sleep 1.75 in the am and 1.5 in the pm even though I asked that the morning nap not be longer than an hour so I'm trying that routine this weekend and if it works well enough without her getting OT then I'll be enforcing it at daycare.  For some reason, Maren has been waking at 5 or 5:30 also, but in her case I think bedtime was too early.

[maxsmom]

After reading all these posts i don't feel so alone in this...thanks for that!

I have a 13mo old son who until the last month slept from 7-8pm until 6-7am but now wakes at 5am.
Around 11mo-12mo  he dropped his afternoon nap (I thought he was a bit young for this but I COULD NOT get him to take an afternoon nap and had a fussy fussy baby in the afternoon) so we slowly pushed him morning nap later and later and now he goes down from about 12pm until 2:30or 3pm (2.5-3hrs).  I have been suspecting that the 3hr naps might be to long and that keep the nap to 2 -2.5 hours could be solution to EW...but I HATE to wake him!!!  Then again I HATE when he wakes at 5am in the cold and dark even more .

I am going to start by keeping a sleep log to figure out how much total sleep he needs between night and naps.

I will keep you posted.  And I will keep checking this thread for any new ideas. 

Thanks for all the help.

Britt

[chars mum]

Hello Michelle, Nicole, Emma and Britt,
Sorry to have been away for the last several days, have a horrid cold which is keeping me up half the night so have zero energy to do anything except chase after DD and drink hot lemon drinks!  My DD continues the EWs, all in the same boat I see, little monkeys aren't they. 

To answer your questions Michelle: my LO's naps are so erratic that I don't limit or try to spit them in any particular way since either nap can range from 30 min to 1.5 hrs. and I never know what I'm going to get.  These days we're lucky to get one nap of 1hr.  Our day may (or may not) look like this:

5:15 wake
9:15 nap (often 30-45 min)
10 wake
2 nap (your guess is as good as mine)
5:30 bath
6 bed (asleep by 6:30-6:45)

On days when she does have a 1+ hr am nap, her second nap time can be quite late eg. yesterday her first nap was 1 hr after 4.25 hrs A time, second nap was also 1 hr. (miraculous!) after 5 hrs. A time (took her an hour to finally go off) so she woke at 4:30!  I debated on waking her at 4 but she refused her pm naps both days prior (day before she only had 30 min nap ALL DAY!) so felt she needed the sleep.  She finally fell asleep last night at 7:15 which I hoped would prompt her to sleep a little later this morning...ya, right, up at 5:15 again   

No, she doesn't need her longest A time before bed.  She often is asleep for the night after 3-3.5 hrs. of A time.   Feel her longest A time is between naps.

Wonder if establishing a set routine and shifting it gradually like Nicole suggested would work?  Would that mean waking her up if she is actually sleeping later in the morning?  If it's going to get rid of these stinkin' EWs I'll do it! 

No haven't read "Help I'm so desperate" Emma, is it worth a read?  Which thread is it under?  Think the title sums up how we are all feeling nicely, don't you?

[emmayorkshire]

Hi chars Mum
Heres the link - http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=131811.0 - it's "Im so desperate can someone help me" in Sleep Issues, Toddler Early Waking. Yes, it sums up how desperate we all are for a good nights sleep and a non-grumpy baby!. My DS has a rotten cold so our sleep and eat patterns are all to pot, so we'll be starting over again with our sleep routines when he's well...oh dear!

[chars mum]

Thanks for the link Emma.  I sat and read the entire 22 page epic last night, gained quite a lot of insight actually!  Think perhaps I should be pushing her first A time forward a tad to try get that am nap as long as possible in addition to trying for an earlier bedtime with my LO.  She was so OT last night, didn't get a pm nap and was asleep by 6:10pm...however, she kept stirring and finally woke up screaming at 10:15pm.  Think she may have my cold, she would not go back to sleep unless I was lying right next to her crib with my hand on her mattress so she could rest her head on it...took until 1:30am to finally go off and then she was up at 6:10am!  SOOO tired today 

[emmayorkshire]

Poor you! Alex has gone to bed at 5.45 tonight  - he was shattered with his cold. I am still following the I'm so desperate thread hoping that they will come up with the solution and I can copy it!

[deckchariot]

sick bubs do not sleep well.....{{{{{{hugs}}}}}} ladies.  Until your bubs are feeling better, it's probably going to be rather challenging to keep to any kind of a routine.

charsmom - if she's fine with a shorter A time before bed, then your plan looks good - just keep pushing out that first A time in the hopes of getting a long first nap, then you can do a short pm catnap (even as late at 4 - 4:30 - waking at 4:30).  Then do the early bedtime if one or both of the naps are not good.  If you can settle that routine and the EWs don't go away, then you can try shifting the whole day 15 min forward and see how that works.

Nicole - how's it going?

[marensmama]

Thanks for asking Michelle!  We're doing well.  Hayden has been waking between 6 & 6:30, which I'm happy with.  She sleeps for 45 min in the morning at 9:30 or so and at 1:30 she's been sleeping for 1.75 hrs.  Thankfully daycare has been following through with the new routine.  I'm just not sure when to cut her nap further or if I should be pushing her morning A time more.  Or do I just wait for nap refusal or the EW to start up?

[deckchariot]

I say if it's working now, don't mess with it!!!  When things start to go wonky again, cut that first nap back to 30 min and then you may need to move the pm nap a bit earlier as well.  YAY!!!

[emmayorkshire]

Need a bit of advice please. Put alex down at 6.30pm last night. he slept till 4.15am, then chatted to himself for 45 mins. By 5am he had had enough and was stood up crying in his cot. I had been in a few times in the 45 mins and given him his cuddly and settled him. He seems to be trying to go back to sleep as he makes nice contented noises. But then when he's had enough, it makes it very clear!! Out of desperation (Dh and I have a virus and have been sick all weekend) I dave him a bottle of milk. I usually do anyway when he wakes up, but usually we go to the kitchen for it and are then up for the day. I put him back down after the bottle and he slept till 7.20!!! My DH has always argued that he is waking up cos he's thirsty and wants us to continue giving him a 5am drink then putting him back down to bed. I'm worried we are solving one problem (the EWs) by creating another (night feeding again). What should I do?

[chars mum]

Hello girls,
OK, my LO is refusing her pm nap more and more these days but she is still waking between 5:15-5:30am so her am nap is falling between 9:15-9:30am and lasting 1hr 10min-1hr 20min.  On days she refuses her pm nap we get her to bed super early, she is in bed asleep before 6pm.  I'm really worried she is OT without that pm nap but she just won't go down!   Should we even bother trying for a pm nap or just forget it and keep putting her to bed early?     Any thoughts?
Emma, that's quite a conundrum you're in!  Have you tried the same since and had the same results?   Does he have a big drink at bedtime?   Sorry to not have any suggestions, not sure what I would do in that situation either.    Hopefully one of the other mums here can help?

[emmayorkshire]

Hi Chars Mum,
Can you try shortening her am nap to just 45 mins? Maybe she will take a pm nap then? Thats all I can think of!
Conversely, I've stopped limiting Alex's am nap in last 3 days. Started off because we all came down with sickness bug over weekend, so I let him sleep while I slept. he has been sleeping 2 hours in the morning instead oft eh 45 mins I was letting him have. Result has been a much happier boy with less tantrums and eating like a horse! He has had 1 hours in the after noon between 2-3pm. Down for 6.30. He's been stirring at 4ish but by zooming in with a dummy, quick forehead stroke etc, I've got a bit longer out of him. Went till 5.45 today! Stopped giving him milk because by the second day he had his drink, then refused to go back to bed, so that only worked once!. I think im sticking with this routine for now just to see what happens - tried everything else, we may as well!

[deckchariot]

chars mum - I suspect the 5/5:30 wake ups are due to the 6:00 bedtimes - as that's a full night of sleep for many bubs.  Emmayorkshire is on the right track I think, with limiting that am nap -  I'd start cutting back 15 min every 2-3 days and at the same time, try bringing the time of her pm nap a bit earlier.  You'd keep the am nap at the same time (so 4 hrs of A time), but just keep shortening it.  Then she will be hopefully more tired to take a longer pm nap and you can start pushing bedtime out just a bit which will hopefully help eliminate those EWs.

[chars mum]

I understand what you're saying but I'm afraid to start limiting her am nap as she has never been one to have a good pm nap, am nap always been her best.  What if I shorten it and she still refuses her pm nap??  I suppose I need to pluck up the courage and just give it a try...maybe I'll feel more courageous in the morning, so exhausted right now.
Thanks for the suggestions girls.  Will let you know how it's going.