Food allergy? (sorry TMI)

[Vicku]

DD turned 2yo in Sep. She has bad ecsema around her mouth and has had for over a month now. We've been putting moisturising cream on every day but it won't go away. She also has dry ecsema on her legs that has come and gone last few months. Her poo has always been very soft and sticky, often with undigested food in it, like carrotts for example, still (sorry for TMI!) and often a slightly sour smell (not like "real" poo IYKWIM?)
Now she's been complaining on and off of a tummy ache for a couple of days and pooed 4 times yesterday, and 3 times already today at 10 am, sticky and soft again.

Just to give some history... When she was 3.5 mo we tried supplementing with formula milk as I couldn't express enough and had to work 1 day/week, and she had a really bad reaction with vomiting and rash that lasted a week, plus bad stomache and poos. Tried it again after a week in case it wasn't the formula but same thing happened, so we avoided all milk products and then gradually introduced again after 7 mo. But since she's always been prone to ecsema and had these weird poos, I'm getting more and more suspicious of a food allergy.

Anyone got any thoughs/similar experiences?

[Spectra]

I know for my son formula, and any other food he has a reaction to, will result in eczema first around the mouth/cheeks.  Then it goes all over his body.  He will also have diarrhea with mucus in it.  He's still young so he cannot tell me if his tummy hurts, but it wouldn't surprise me as he does get real upset.  So it is very possible your daughter is having a reaction to food.

Have you seen a doctor yet?  They may be able to set up an appt for an allergy test.
Has your daughter had any new foods in the last month, or more of a certain food, that may cause this reaction over the last month?

[deb]

I would totally have her allergies checked, given even that history. It's possible that she's allergic enough to have contact allergies to some foods; a friend's LO is so sensitive/allergic to dairy that if she even touches cheese, or if someone who's had dairy but not washed their hands well touches her, she breaks out in a rash. On the (relatively) bright side, you may be able to do some skin testing for food allergy without having to actually have her eat the stuff.

Also, as far as possible, scrupulously avoiding ANY artificial flavors and colors can often help people who are super-sensitive to them, just in case that's a factor.

Pleae keep us updated.

[deb]

You may also want to try probiotics; if there's a yeast overgrowth in the digestive tract, the food won't be digested properly. There are some out there with ZERO dairy in them (friend's LO takes them, actually, so she's found some), but you'd have to look, since many are cultured from the same stuff as yogurt and so have some dairy origins. (like flu vaccine being cultured in eggs, kinda, so people allergic to eggs can't have regular flu shots)

[Vicku]

Thanks for the replies!
I actually took DD to the docs yesterday as I could get an appointment with my fav doc the same day. She's written a referral to a children's clinic to have some tests done, so lets' hope it won't be too long until then.
DD had 5 poos yesterday, but apart from getting nappy rash from it she's seemed fine, not ill so I don't think it can be a tummy bug. I am suspecting dairy as she had a reaction to it as a baby and she started nursery/daycare a month an a half ago and she drinks milk there even if she never used to like it before I think she does it cos the other kids do IYKWIM. The doc told me not to take anything out of her diet and not to treat the ecsema on her legs with steroid cream before she gets tested, but it feels bad to gie her dairy still when I'm suspicious of it

How do they test for these allergies then? And what can they test for?

[skatty]

Oh no Vicku, how awful to have to deal with this at Lois's age, it was bad enough when L was a baby. I would also be suspicious of the dairy if you don't give milk at home and she now has it at daycare because I remember you mentioning when she first started that the eczema flared up. Her symptoms sound just like L's were and can be like now if she drinks whole milk, if you suspect dairy then I don't blame you for wanting to eliminate it, no harm as long as you provide appropriate alternatives like fortified rice milk is there?

Hope you have this sorted soon 

[Vicku]

Thanks Katt!

Anyone know how they do the testing?

[deb]

My friend's LO had to have blood drawn, and then I guess they subjected each sample to a different allergen to see what happened next. The tests she has done are specific enough that they can tell HOW allergic she is to different foods and even different pollens in the air, and they can also use those numbers to guide them as to if/when it's safe to add something back in. (She used to be unable to eat eggs, but can now have them in small quantities, which opens up whole new areas of cooking for her mom, but the numbers are still too high for dairy, for example. )

They return from time to time for a new blood draw to see what else has changed.

[Vicku]

That sounds good that they can test so accurately! Not looking forward to her having blood drawn though That'll be fun-not! I was wondering if they also do tests on their poo, or on the skin, but I guess I'll find out when they give us an appointment. I hope they hurry up though as they said I shouldn't cut anything out as they need to see the sympthoms. Can't be good though to keep having these runny poos and itchy ecsema. Poor girl

[deb]

If it's for a relatively short time, just till they can see her, it'll be good in the long run. And yeah, blood draws can be hard for kids (and harder on parents!) but still better than more of the same ol' [stuff].

[Lissybits]

Nicholas did RAST allergy tests earlier this year after his bad asthma attack and also as he had a severe allergic reaction last Christmas (with a horrific welt -like rash and swollen lips and eyes )

They took a very small amount of blood - it was so quick he didn't even realise what had happened and he didn't cry.
They tested loads of things (food, pollen plants dust etc - I can give you the full list if you're interested) and it came back 2.75 (out of 6) allergic to cats
Our cat lives outside anyway   The respiratory ped consultant told us we had to get rid of our cat

This summer, I had planned to stay with my sister in England to look after her little girl for 2 weeks - it had been planned before we had the results of the RAST - she has 2 cats
I decided to go ahead and stay anyway and just be extra vigilant with N's health. Nothing happened at all So I'm glad we didn't get rid of Kitty.

So, Vicku, even if you do the tests (which I think is a good idea) they might not be conclusive but at least you're know what she's not allergic to

Incidently, N also gets a red rash around his mouth when he eats tomatoes and oranges And he's an eczema sufferer.

HTH a little?
Lis

[Vicku]

You're right Deb, it's just for now...

Hi Lis! Thanks! That is helpful to know and yes, I would be interested in the list if you can be bothered to write it? I'm glad you didn't have to get rid of your cat! We have a cat too and I am actually allergic to cats but have somehow gotten more 'immune' by having him. I think having pets help childrens' allergies to make them less allergic as adults, so that's part of why we still have him and took him with us to sweden when we moved. Obviously if a child has a severe allergy it'd be different... glad it wasn't the cat though.

God that mut have been so scary, Nic's allergic reaction so you still don't know what caused it then?

We were told last winter by the child nurse to avoid oranges and tomatoes to see if her ecsema improved, so she still doesn't eat that much. I've also asked nursery not to give her oranges anymore, but she does sometimes have ketchup at home...

Poos are still runny and 3+/day

[Lissybits]

Hi Vicks

Ohh, sorry to hear about the poo - that must be sore for poor Lois

I had a look for the sheet, but I think I must have handed it over when we went for the blood tests - sorry 
But here is a link to the post I wrote back then and the tests that our ped ticked from the list - it will give you an idea.
Sorry I can't be much more help
Hugs
 

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=123090.msg1305941#msg1305941

[Vicku]

Thanks Lis, I'll have a read about that.

[Mydreamcametrue]

Hi there:

I just want to say that she may not even show positive at all on the allergy test.  It could all be just an intolerance, which is just as bad, but so much harder to diagnose.

Both of my kids were allergy tested.  First we did the skin prick test.  They test for about 50 allergens or so.  They mark off there back and then do little pricks with the allergen.  It was a little uncomfortable, but not painful. 
My first son also had the RAST blood test done several times.  That was AWFUL.  They have to stick the needle in the arm and actually draw out test tubes of blood.

My 2nd son, showed negative to all allergens, BUT still cannot have milk or he gets awful runny poop. 

So all I am saying is, deft. have the test done, but if it shows negative, I would not rule out an intolerance.

When is her appoitment?

If it was not in the next 2 weeks, I would cut out ALL diary, even hidden for 2 weeks and see if she improves. 
Then you can try to re-introduce dairy and see what happens. 

Good Luck with everything, Wendy

[Vicku]

Thanks Wendy, I'll bear that in mind. I know you can be lactose intolerant or milk protein allergic, is that right?
We've got an appointment 24th November, but the doctor wrote a referral last week to try get her seen quicker, so I'm not sure when it'll be.

[Mydreamcametrue]

No, You can actually be Milk Protein Intolerant.

Read this link

babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=50779.0

Wendy

[deb]

Thanks for that info, Wendy.

For another example, Josie is not allergic to corn, as far as we can tell - she can eat corn onthe cob and popcorn - but woe betide ANYONE around her when she consumes High Fructose Corn Syrup. Something just wigs out. Seriously. She gets cranky, irritable, can't sleep right - heck, she's like me with PMS! Avoid the HFCS, avoid (most of) the symptoms.

This child, at not yet 7, is better-infomred about food and what some of the components can do to one than most adults.

That said, she still loves her junk food. (She IS her Mommy's daughter.... )

But yes, a definite difference.

I wonder what exactly the immunological difference is..... anyone have a link for that?

[Vicku]

Hi again!

Today we've finally got an appointment with a paediatrician for Lois' ecsema and possible allergies. I really hope they will do all the tests and take it seriously. At the moment her ecsema is a bit better, typical! But I know it will get worse again as it always does, goes up and down in severity. I'm a little nervous, have to take her there on my own, but fingers crossed it'll go fine.

Vicku

[Mydreamcametrue]

Please post once you get back.  Do you have any pictures you can take with you?

Hugs and good luck, Wendy

[Vicku]

I will update tomorrow.

[Lissybits]

I'll be really interested to see what they say hun

AND - congrats on becoming a mod - wow!!!!!!
 

[Vicku]

Thanks Lis!

The visit yesterday was a bit confusing tbh. The doc seemed to think Lois only has dry skin as her ecsema has improved loads this last week  and as she doesn't get it in her creases but *on* her arms, legs and back, plus around the mouth, she said it is almost certainly not a food allergy. She said it could not be a lactose intolerance cos small kids don't get that (but my cousin's son did!) and if it's a cow's milk protein intolerance it will grow away, and the benefits of eliminating it from her diet are probably not going to outweigh the trouble of doing it??? WTF? Surely it can't be good if it affects her poo and gives her rashes and ecsema? She was going on about at which age different allergies affect you and said from 2 yo and up ecsema improves so it should get better anyway. Why has it got worse these last months then??? She said it's not uncommon to have bits in the poo and to have 4 poos a day, and will get better on its own.
We did have a blood test (poor Lois!) to check for, I think, Caeliac's disease (sp?) and she said I should talk to DH and decide what to do and if we do decide we want to try an elimination diet anyway, that they would be able to help, so at least that's something. But she seemed to think that trying to make her poo more normal was just a benefit to the parents, as the poo would be more pleasant??? No mention of the fact that it might not be good for LO's body. Surely it would help her overall health to find out what's causing it? I tried to explain that we'd limited dairy the last few days and *had* seen an improvement, but she didn't seem to want to listen on that ear really. I also asked if it could help to restrict dairy rather than eliminate completely, but she said no, it won't make any difference, it has to be 100% eliminated in that case.
She didn't do any skin tests as according to her they are very unreliable... She adviced to put steroid cream on the ecsema when it flares up, which is all fine and good, but to not try to get to the root cause and only treat the sympthoms doesn't feel right to me. surely something's causing it???

[Lissybits]

Oh dear - not very helpful AT ALL

I would definitely get a second opinion and at least try eliminating certain things from her diet to see if there are any improvements in the meantime.
Sorry you didn't get the help expected - very frustrating
Hugs hun

[deb]

Here's a *cyber slap* for you to put upside this doc's head.  

I completely agree with what you're sayng about treating the causes, not the symptoms, and I hope that you can get a good second opinion. FWIW, I have a friend whose DD has finally outgrown her allergy to eggs but at nearly Josie's age there is no sign of her losing her allergy to dairy, so to just have this cookie-cutter picture of what kids will and won't be allergis to and when is just, well, $%#&. (insert naughty word of your choice there )

[Spectra]

That's crazy about the doctor.  Though my first doctor and my ped was the same way.  They viewed it as no big deal and therefore no need to find the cause, just treat the symptoms.  For me, and I'm sure for you, I didn't want to see my son uncomfortable or suffer.  I would try eliminating dairy yourself to see if this is the cause.  Since you daughter is older you can try Rice milk and other alternatives.  Hopefully something will make a difference.

[deb]

And WTF on the nutritional benefits of milk? There is calcium in LOTS of food that are NOT cows' milk, and rice  milk is available (here, anyway) with added calcium. Salmon, broccoli (and other dark greens) have lots of calcium!  There are also supplements out there to help make up the difference if nothing else is feasible.

Idiot doctor!  (*sending along an extra cyber-slap for her*)

[Mydreamcametrue]

That is why you have US!!!  LOL  I have learned that a doctor is great of course, but a mother knows best.  Not a friend, relative, father, no one. 

You have to be the detective and figure out what works.  I went through all this with Zach and it took about 4 doctors, the final one being an Immunologist to agree that they deft. thought it was a milk/soy protein intolerance. 

Once I removed ALL dairy and soy, he was great.

Now I am going through this with Tyler.  He has more of the skin and crankiness symptoms.  Zach had more of the poop issues.  Everything he ate came out whole, undigested. 

If it were me, I would try one thing at a time.  I would offer Fortified Rice Milk to drink and avoid all dairy and soy. 

If you still do not see improvement, the next thing I would eliminate is wheat.  Could be celiac disease, just based on her poop history, but sounds more like milk and soy are the problem.

Please let me know if I can help in any way.

Hugs, Wendy

[Vicku]

Thanks for your replies! And for the cyber slaps I wish I could forward them to the doc!
The more I think of it I the more p$ssed off I get... Feel like she's really not taken this seriously despite our family history of allergies. I'm not sure whether to try for a second opinion from another doc/ped, or to go alternative. I've been helped immensely in the past by a naturopath, who discovered food intolerances and deficiencies that were making me really ill. The traditional docs hadn't been able to help me, but this woman did. I spoke to her today and she says she does take children too, so that might be a way forward. I shouldn't really eat dairy myself, but have been cheating a lot lately, so maybe me and Lois should do 'no dairy' together for a while and see if things improve for us both???
It's just so frustrating when you have a gut instinct that something is not right and you get no support from the medicals
Also I'm going to speak to my cousin whose son (and DH) has lactose intolerance, and see if she has any info. Really confused me when the doc said lactose intolerance doesn't exist in young children. How come he's got it then?? She said it's probably a milk protein intolerance, but I know it's not cos he drinks lactose free milk and yoghurt and is fine, but get s ill if he has normal milk. Aaarh! Frustrating!
Ok, rant over! Good to be amongst you guys who knows what it's like

Just read your reply as I was about to post Wendy. I'm so glad I have the support on here! And hearing how you had to struggle to find out what it was, mostly on your own too, makes me more determined to not give up and listen to that doctor.

She never has soy actually, so don't need to worry about that. Have avoided it since DD had the bad reaction to formula at 3.5mo as read that milk and soy allergies/intolerances often go hand in hand and never reintroduced it with her solids. I think given that history (that she projectile vomited, got a rash and diarrhoea from formula, twice (second and third time we ever gave it to her) makes milk very suspicious, and I can't understand why this doctor wouldn't listen to that Aaaaargh again!

We have both fortified rice milk and fortified oats milk here, so might try that with her.
Thanks all sooooo much for being there to talk to!!! You are great!

 

[deb]

YAY for that Momma Bear instinct!!!!!

And of course, let us know if you need anything else - we're here!!!!