Author Topic: Need help with naps please please - 7.5 months  (Read 23945 times)

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Offline Tobysmum

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Need help with naps please please - 7.5 months
« on: October 26, 2008, 22:50:28 pm »
Gus is 7.5 months now.  I thought I'd start a new post as things have started to deteriorate again :(  and I need more help.   Things have been pretty good for the past 2 weeks - we got down to one night waking to feed (great) and we were having regular naps - and both baby and toddler have napped together (a cross over of an hour as toddler naps much longer than baby).   Perfect.
BUT!!
For the past few days it's got progressively worse, we are back to at least 2 night wakings and naps are getting progressively worse too.  We still have the problem that we don't really know when he wakes in the morning - I just haven't been able to rectify that one. 
Basically, he is never going to be a long daytime sleeper - I just don't think it's in his nature.  He seems to be best on a total daytime sleep of approx 2-2.5 hrs max.  I have accepted that fact!  Also, he is never going to do 2 equal length naps - which actually suits me better to.  So, his first nap is generally 30-40 mins long and if he sleeps any longer he only has a short lunchtime nap.  That said, because he only has a short morning nap and not a particularly long afternoon nap, we often have a VERY long A time before bed.  99.9% of the time he still goes to sleep very easily at night. 

Our day has looked similar to this for the past 2 weeks or so.

A??? Possibly 6.30?  Some days it's earlier, or sometimes it can even be later if he feeds in the early morning and then goes back to sleep.
E BF I always feed him when I get him up in the morning - sometimes can be 6.30, 6.45 or 7.00 - but I feed him so he knows the day has started.
E 8.00am - solids (rice cereal mixed with water and 1 ice cube fruit)
S He will be asleep anywhere between 9.10 and 9.30 and generally sleeps for 30 mins (although he usually wakes up at the 30 min mark wide awake and happy, on the occasion that he sleeps longer, I don't et him sleep longer than 40 mins anymore as he will then not sleep well at lunchtime I have found).

E BF 11.00
E 12.00 Solids (3 ice cubes veg and 1 ice cube fruit)
S He's asleep anywhere between 1.00 and 1.30pm.  Has been sleeping for between 1hr and 1hr 30 mins (did 1hr 50 mins one day!!)  - My toddler goes to nap at about 1.15 (I usually make sure Gus is asleep before I take Toby the toddler upstairs).  Gus is usually awake anywhere between 2pm and 2.30pm so that's a very long A time until bed.

E BF 3.00
E 5.00pm solids (3 ice cubes veg and 1 ice cube fruit)
E BF 6.20/6.30.
S 6.45 - he's usually asleep between 6.45 and 7.00.

Then we have 2 night wakings generally (rarely wakes in the evening but woke 3 times yesterday evening and then twice in the night).  I have reduced his solids as I was told on the breastfeeding board that he was probably getting too many solids and that's why he wanted more milk at night.  He is now taking a bit more in the day I think.

A times for the first nap are usually around 3hrs 15 mins (I have tried all sorts of A times and seem to still get a 30-35 min nap most of the time).
A times for the second nap are usually between 3hrs and 3hrs 25 mins (the day I got the 1hr 50 min nap was after 3hrs 25 min A time!)
A times after the second nap until bed can be between 4.75 hrs (if he woke at 2pm for example), or 3hrs 45 mins (if he woke at 3pm).

I do tend to put him to bed at the same time each day (I find it difficult to get him to bed any earlier with a toddler in tow!)  We are usually feeding by 6.25pm.

I know his A times are long - the funny thing is that he's happy, rarely cranky (still very rarely shows tiredness signs). 

Do you just think he's getting OT after having too long A times for a couple of weeks and now it's getting worse as it's catching up with him?  I am still confident that he can handle 3hrs  + A times.  The problem is that if I put him down any earlier for that first nap, then the second nap has to move earlier and because he doesn't sleep very long, we'd have a long long A time before bed.

Any ideas appreciated - I'd like to try and improve things before they get really bad again.

Feel free to ask any questions.








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Offline eclaire

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Re: I'm back - getting worse again :(
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2008, 02:22:58 am »
Ok, I'm quite new to this but I have 7.5month old as well...actually he'll be 8 months on the 1st.  I actually just started him on easy (see post on this board).  A couple of thoughts:  could he be teething?  Is it possible that he's hungry and not getting enough solids during the day?  Could it be something new in his diet?  Or, something new developmentally?
I know most babies don't go through a growth spurt at this age but my LO has all of a sudden started to eat so much more food, and getting up less at night.

Do you do a DF or just nurse when he wakes at night?  In the one BW book I am following she talks about not nursing at night after 11.  My LO has a DF at 10, but then seems to be starving between 3-5am.  If I don't nurse him then he is up crying for 1:30min to 2 hours regardless of PU/PD etc.  which he doesn't do at any other time.  Twice I nursed him and he was so hungry...and he went back in to his crib awake but tired and put himself back to sleep on his own.  So I guess I'm tagging on a question to your questions...I feed him so much at 7, 11, 3, then nurse plus snack at 5 and nurse again at 7. 

Your schedule sounds quite a bit like mine although I managed to extend his nap times to 1:20min  in am/pm by doing PU/PD when he woke up until he slept even a little bit more at which time it was time to eat.  he plays happily in the evening but is tired by 6 so we start our wind down pj's etc then.  Tonight he was asleep by 6:30pm
Claire

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Re: I'm back - getting worse again :(
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2008, 11:50:20 am »
I sort of realised that I didn't necessarily say what my problem is!  2 problems - 1 is the 2 night wakings.  Second problem is that yesterday for example, he slept for 30 mins in the morning and 50 mins at lunchtime (waking at 2.20pm) and then that was it for naps - he was asleep between 6.45 and 7.00.  The day before he had 30 min nap in the morning and 1hr at lunchtime and again that was it for naps.  We had been doing 30 mins in the morning and 1hr - 1hr 30 mins at lunchtime but for the past 3 days it's got progressively worse.  If he wakes around 2/2.30 that's a real long time until bed.   I tried a catnap yesterday but he wasn 't having any of it.

As far as him not getting enough solids in the day - I was giving him 4 cubes of veg and 2 fruit for lunch and dinner and cereal for breakfast but I was advised that this was probably too much - as he was cutting right down on his milk in the day.  I have cut down as I said in my original post in the hope that he increases his milk intake.

As far as developmental milestones are concerned, he has no teeth but I don't necessarily think he's teething as he's happy generally.  I don't do a DF as that made no difference to the NW at all.

Last night he didn't feed well at all at bedtime and he woke at 9.30 (assuming hungry) so I fed him.  He then woke up at 2.30 and I think he went through until 6.15 (got him up at 6.30am as he was crying).

I may try reducing his A times slightly today. 

Any other comments?
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Offline Tobysmum

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Re: I'm back - getting worse again :(
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2008, 17:08:19 pm »
So, today tried to reduce the A times slightly but still not great.

A 6.15am approx but I didn't go to him until 6.30am
E 6.30am BF
E 8.00 Solids

S 9.10 (put down 9.07am)
A 9.55 (woke him after 45 mins as usually if he sleeps longer than 30-40 mins he doesn't have a good lunchtime sleep - or should I just let him sleep and see what happens?  Usually he wakes after 30-35 mins anyway.

E 10.45 BF
E - would usually feed him about 11.45/12.00 but he didn't want ANY solids at all today.

S 12.50
A 2.00 (woke happy)

Now, it's only 2pm so I guess he would need another nap before bedtime (although he doesn't usually).  Difficult to get that catnap in with a toddler and he rarely falls asleep in the car or on a walk.  I am guessing he should be on 2 naps as I am sure he can handle 3 hrs A time now but as the first and second naps are on the short side, it just leaves us with such a long time until bed.

Any suggestions on how to tweak things.  Please have a look at the previous posts.  As I have said in previous posts, I have been unable to extend naps - it's very very difficult to do with a toddler around. 

Thanks
« Last Edit: October 27, 2008, 18:02:01 pm by Tobysmum »
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Offline eclaire

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Re: I'm back - getting worse again :(
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2008, 19:53:02 pm »
hopefully others will reply as well since I'm so new at this I'm just throwing ideas out there. but what about letting him sleep in the am until he wakes up and then extending the a time before his afternoon nap?  With a longer sleep in the am is it possible that he could be UT for the afternoon nap?

Hugs to you trying to do this with a toddler!! 
Claire

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Re: I'm back - getting worse again :(
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2008, 22:38:58 pm »
Hi, thanks for that.  I was also thinking that I may just let him sleep tomorrow and see what happens (perhaps he just needs to catch up on some ZZZ as he's a bit OT at the moment from lots of A times that have been too long?)
I don't understand your question "with a longer sleep in the am is it possible that he could be UT for the afternoon nap".
Perhaps you can let me know what you mean!
Thanks and again if anyone else has suggestions, please let me know.

Today was:

A I think he woke at 6.15am approx but I didn't go to him until 6.30am
E 6.30am BF
E 8.00 Solids
S 9.10 (put down 9.07am)
A 9.55 (woke him after 45 mins as usually if he sleeps longer than 30-40 mins he doesn't have a good lunchtime sleep - or should I just let him sleep and see what happens?  Usually he wakes after 30-35 mins anyway.

E 10.45 BF
E - would usually feed him about 11.45/12.00 but he didn't want ANY solids at all today.
S 12.50
A 2.00 (woke happy)

E 2.30 BF
E 4.30 (I gave him his solids early as he needed to have another nap). 2 ice cubes veg, 1 ice cube fruit.
S 5.00 (I put him down at 4.50 and he cried on and off before he went to sleep)
A 5.20

E 6.30pm
S 6.50pm


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lilac83

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Re: I'm back - getting worse again :(
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2008, 01:28:23 am »
Hi!

I'm in pretty much the same place you are now with my 5.5 month old DD. She's fighting a cat nap since she's on the edge of only needing 2 naps but she's just not quite there yet because of short second nap. I'm in the process of stretching out the 2nd A time, which may be what you should start doing also to see if he'll take a longer nap. I've read on here that anything shorter than 2 sleep cycles is a UT nap, the LO wasn't tired enough to make it all the way through another cycle. I wouldn't mess with the first nap yet if you feel he's not going to take a good 2nd nap after a good 1st nap. So, perhaps try 3h 15m A time after his first nap tomorrow.

HTH!

Offline eclaire

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Re: I'm back - getting worse again :(
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2008, 03:32:44 am »
That's what I meant by the Undertired (UT) that I was wondering about.  If he sleeps longer in the AM and then he has a longer second A time then maybe he would sleep longer in the pm, plus the sleep started later so that should shorten the third A time and make for a tired LO but not an Overtired LO which could lead to a restless night...or so it says in the BW.

Yesterday my DS had two sleeps of 1hr 20 min and then only woke up once at 4am for a few minutes of sh/pat (best night ever for us).  Then today he wouldn't sleep more than 30 min at a stretch, so I worked on trying to extend his nap. And he went down for his first catnap. Hopefully tonight he'll have a good night.
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Re: I'm back - getting worse again :(
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2008, 11:53:49 am »
He usually does between 3hrs 10 mins and 3hrs 25 mins for the second A time - I will post my A times to let you know the naps I've been getting from the past week or so (later as I am about to go out).  Last night wasn't too bad - he woke at 9.30pm and cried for a bit but resettled without us needing to go in (I know it was a tired cry).  He then took a long feed (both sides) at about 12.30 and then slept until approx 6.30am. 
Anyway, will post later regarding the A times that I've been doing.
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Re: I'm back - getting worse again :(
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2008, 17:12:24 pm »
OK - here are the past few days nap times and I've calculated the A times so you don't have to work it out!  As you can see naps aren't too great despite experimenting with different A times.  I am clearly doing something wrong.  If the shorter naps are meaning UT, I find that difficult to take on as he still has a short nap with a 3hr 25 min A time!

Generally he wakes in the morning between 6.00 and 6.15 although I'm not always a 100% sure he is very very quiet and I'm a heavy sleeper!

So, going backwards from today:

Today 28 Oct
1st nap 9.20-10.10 (45 mins)
2nd nap 1.25pm -  (he's asleep now - sort of but is VERY unsettled and has just woken up for the second time at 2.10!) after 3hrs 15 mins A time (he had cried for about 10 mins before going to sleep) - suspect OT even though he's only had 3hrs 15 mins A time.


Yesterday 27 Oct
1st nap 9.10-9.55 (I woke him up up after 45 mins).
2nd nap 12.55-2.00 (1hr 5 mins after 3hrs A time)
3rd nap 5.00-5.20 after 3hrs A time.
Nightwakings 9.30 (went back to sleep) and 12.30 (took a full feed both sides)
Sleep 6.55pm

Sunday 26 Oct
1st nap 9.30-10.10 (I woke him after 40 mins)
2nd nap 1.20-2.10 (50 mins after 3hrs 10 min A time)
Sleep 7pm
Nightwakings - he woke a couple of times in night to feed.

Saturday 25 Oct
1st nap 9.25-10.10 (woke him after 45 mins)
2nd nap 1.30-2.30 (1hr after 3hrs 25 mins A time)
NWs - lots, 3 times in the evening (fed once in evening as we were in the middle of a dinner party! and twice at night (fed both times as was very tired from going to bed at 1am!)

Fri 24 Oct
1st nap 9.35-10.15 (woke him after 40 mins)
2nd nap 1.15-1.45 (30 mins after 3hrs A time)
NWs - 2 but can't remember times.

Thurs 23 Oct
1st nap 9.20-9.50 (30 mins)
2nd nap 1.20-2.20 (1hr after 3hrs 25 mins A time)
Nws 11.30 and 4 fed both times

Wed 22 Oct
1st nap 9.15-9.50 (40 mins)
2nd nap 1.15-3.05 (1hr 50 min nap after 3hrs 25 min A time)
NWs 11.30 and 4.15 fed both times.

Tues 21 Oct
1st nap 9.30-10.00 (30 mins)
2nd nap 12.50-2.00 (1hr 10 mins after 2hrs 50 mins A time).
Nws 10.30 and 3am fed both times.

Mon 20 Oct
1st nap 9.15-9.50 (35 mins)
2nd nap 1.05-2.55 (but he woke up at 1.40 and cried for a while) (1hr 50 mins including wake up) after 3hrs 15 mins A time.
NWs 1am (fed)

Sun 19 Oct
1st nap 9.20-10.10 (50 mins)
2nd nap 1.25-2.35 (1hr 10 mins after 3hrs 15 mins A time)
NWs 2.30 for an hour - fed.

Sat 18 Oct
1st nap 9.10-9.45 (35 mins)
2nd nap 12.55-2.20 (1hr 25 mins after 3hrs 10 min a time)
nws 10.45 but went back to sleep, then slept until 6am!!!!!!!!!

Fri 17 Oct
1st nap 9.10-9.35 (25 mins)
2nd nap 1.00-2.20 (1 hr 20 mins after 3hrs 25 mins)
nws 1am fed

Thurs 16 oct
1st nap 9.25-9.55 (30 mins)
2nd nap 1.10-3.00 (1hr 50 mins - woke up after 50 mins cried a bit and went back to sleep - after 3hrs 15 min A time)
nw 11.35 4.30 - fed both times.

Wed
 - napped incredibly badly, not even worth writing down!

Tues 14 oct
1st nap 9.20-9.50 (40 mins)
2nd nap 12.50-1.20 (35 mins after 3hrs A time)
3rd nap 4.30-5.00  (30 mins after 3hrs 10 min A time)
NWs?  didn't write them down but 1-2 nws to feed.

Mon 13 Oct
1st nap 9.15-9.45 (30 mins)
2nd nap 12.45-2.05 (1hr 20 mins after 3hrs A time)
3rd nap 4.30-5.00 (30 mins after 3hrs 15 min A time)
Nws ? didn't write them down but 1-2 nws to feed.
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Offline Tobysmum

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Need help with naps please please - 7.5 months
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2008, 17:20:39 pm »
Hi, I'm back as we are seriously struggling with these naps again i.e. total daytime sleep isn't much at all really, long A time before bed etc  Things started to improve but have got progressively worse again.  Gus is 7.5 months (born March 12th) is angel/textbook generally (can be a bit touchy sometimes).  He is breastfed and also takes some solids.  I was advised to reduce the solids I was giving him as he was cutting right down on milk in the day.  He wakes 1-2 times at night (I feed him but would like to cut out one of the feeds).

OK - here are the past few days nap times and I've calculated the A times so you don't have to work it out!  As you can see naps aren't too great despite experimenting with different A times.  I am clearly doing something wrong.  If the shorter naps are meaning UT (which someone suggested on the EASY board, I find that difficult to take on as he still has a short nap with a 3hr 25 min A time! 

In an ideal world, I would like him to have a longer nap somewhere between 1 and 3.30 (somewhere within those times) as that's when my toddler naps.  I do realise babies are not computers, so this may not work.  It had been working but it's not now - I supsect some cumulative OT somewhere along the way.  Gus generally does not show tiredness cues, he could stay up all day and wouldn't let me now until I try to put him down and he is clearly OT! 

Generally he wakes in the morning between 6.00 and 6.15 although I'm not always a 100% sure he is very very quiet and I'm a heavy sleeper!  At night he's usually asleep between 6.45-and 7.00pm. 

Daytime sleep usually amounts to between 1.5hrs and 2.5 hrs but he functions best on 2.5hrs really.  As you can see, he's really not getting that much sleep (as well as having 2 night wakings) 11hr nights really - so I just don't think he's getting enough sleep overall.  I do think though that he will never be a long napper.  He's very chilled out and doesn't really expend a lot of energy.  Not sitting up, not crawling, barely rolling, no teeth, was slow to take to solids etc.  He's very happy even when he's OT (that's why I don't realise he's tired sometimes).  I find it very difficult to watch his cues, and rely on A times to a large extent but I am not getting that right either.

He b'feeds every 4 hours usually (even at night at the moment which isn't great).  Although he is very distracted in the day and doesn't always feed well which may be contributing to the feeding at night.  I don't know what to do about that one.

So, going backwards from today:

Today 28 Oct
1st nap 9.20-10.10 (45 mins)
2nd nap 1.25pm - 2.50 (1hr 25 mins but was very unsettled waking twice during the nap (1.55 and 2.10) and woke up crying at the end of the nap.  Nap was after 3hrs 15 mins A time (he had cried for about 10 mins before going to sleep) - suspect OT even though he's only had 3hrs 15 mins A time, which was less than on other days when he's napped OK.
IT'S NOW 2.50PM AND HE'S AWAKE - IT'S STILL ANOTHER 3HRS 55 MINS UNTIL HE'S USUALLY ASLEEP I.E. 6.45.  DO I DO A CATNAP?  IF SO, WHEN?  IF I WAIT 3 HRS THEN THAT WILL BE 5.50PM WHICH IS LATE WHEN HE IS USUALLY ASLEEP BETWEEN 6.45 AND 7.00PM.  ALSO, GETTING HIM TO BED EARLY ISN'T EASILY WITH MY TODDLER/ TEA TIME ETC...


Yesterday 27 Oct
1st nap 9.10-9.55 (I woke him up up after 45 mins).
2nd nap 12.55-2.00 (1hr 5 mins after 3hrs A time)
3rd nap 5.00-5.20 after 3hrs A time.
Nightwakings 9.30 (went back to sleep) and 12.30 (took a full feed both sides)
Sleep 6.55pm

Sunday 26 Oct
1st nap 9.30-10.10 (I woke him after 40 mins)
2nd nap 1.20-2.10 (50 mins after 3hrs 10 min A time)
Sleep 7pm
Nightwakings - he woke a couple of times in night to feed.

Saturday 25 Oct
1st nap 9.25-10.10 (woke him after 45 mins)
2nd nap 1.30-2.30 (1hr after 3hrs 25 mins A time)
NWs - lots, 3 times in the evening (fed once in evening as we were in the middle of a dinner party! and twice at night (fed both times as was very tired from going to bed at 1am!)

Fri 24 Oct
1st nap 9.35-10.15 (woke him after 40 mins)
2nd nap 1.15-1.45 (30 mins after 3hrs A time)
NWs - 2 but can't remember times.

Thurs 23 Oct
1st nap 9.20-9.50 (30 mins)
2nd nap 1.20-2.20 (1hr after 3hrs 25 mins A time)
Nws 11.30 and 4 fed both times

Wed 22 Oct
1st nap 9.15-9.50 (40 mins)
2nd nap 1.15-3.05 (1hr 50 min nap after 3hrs 25 min A time)
NWs 11.30 and 4.15 fed both times.

Tues 21 Oct
1st nap 9.30-10.00 (30 mins)
2nd nap 12.50-2.00 (1hr 10 mins after 2hrs 50 mins A time).
Nws 10.30 and 3am fed both times.

Mon 20 Oct
1st nap 9.15-9.50 (35 mins)
2nd nap 1.05-2.55 (but he woke up at 1.40 and cried for a while) (1hr 50 mins including wake up) after 3hrs 15 mins A time.
NWs 1am (fed)

Sun 19 Oct
1st nap 9.20-10.10 (50 mins)
2nd nap 1.25-2.35 (1hr 10 mins after 3hrs 15 mins A time)
NWs 2.30 for an hour - fed.

Sat 18 Oct
1st nap 9.10-9.45 (35 mins)
2nd nap 12.55-2.20 (1hr 25 mins after 3hrs 10 min a time)
nws 10.45 but went back to sleep, then slept until 6am!!!!!!!!!

Fri 17 Oct
1st nap 9.10-9.35 (25 mins)
2nd nap 1.00-2.20 (1 hr 20 mins after 3hrs 25 mins)
nws 1am fed

Thurs 16 oct
1st nap 9.25-9.55 (30 mins)
2nd nap 1.10-3.00 (1hr 50 mins - woke up after 50 mins cried a bit and went back to sleep - after 3hrs 15 min A time)
nw 11.35 4.30 - fed both times.

Wed
 - napped incredibly badly, not even worth writing down!

Tues 14 oct
1st nap 9.20-9.50 (40 mins)
2nd nap 12.50-1.20 (35 mins after 3hrs A time)
3rd nap 4.30-5.00  (30 mins after 3hrs 10 min A time)
NWs?  didn't write them down but 1-2 nws to feed.

Mon 13 Oct
1st nap 9.15-9.45 (30 mins)
2nd nap 12.45-2.05 (1hr 20 mins after 3hrs A time)
3rd nap 4.30-5.00 (30 mins after 3hrs 15 min A time)
Nws ? didn't write them down but 1-2 nws to feed.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2008, 18:19:10 pm by Tobysmum »
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lilac83

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Re: I'm back - getting worse again :(
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2008, 19:28:29 pm »
I see what you mean. He really is all over the board. And the same A time doesn't result in the same nap length. Even his NW aren't necessarily consistent with how he slept during the day. He's definitely trending towards 2 naps, he's just not getting enough out of them. It seems like right now he's averaging only about 2 hours sleep per day. Besides having the short naps, does he give you any indication that he's OT or is he generally a happy little guy? Do you think he's on the short end of sleep needs? You said he wakes around 6:30am, does this  mean that he is sleeping at 6:30pm, or does he do shorter than 12 hours at night?

Something to perhaps think about is setting the first nap time. Since you don't really know exactly when he woke up, just put him down consistently every day around 9:15am and aim for him sleeping by 9:30am. Hopefully his body would get used to that and know it's time to sleep. Also, I know you said he doesn't give you a good afternoon nap if he takes a good morning nap, however, with him only taking 2 naps per day, both of these should really be at least an hour and a half. I wonder how he would do if you let him sleep at least an hour in the morning (if he'll go that long) and then a little over 3 hours A time?

Offline Tobysmum

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Re: I'm back - getting worse again :(
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2008, 20:50:47 pm »
Yes, you have hit the nail on the head about him being all over the place - and that the same A time not resulting in the same length nap etc..  that's why I struggle!  I agree that he's definitely towards the 2 naps per day, but as you say, he's not sleeping long enough at each of the two naps so that leaves us with not much sleep for the day as there isn't really enough time to fit in a catnap if I do 3hrs A time.  I don't really have much indication that he's OT except for a few evening wakings over the past couple of days which usually means OT I think.  He was only waking once per night to feed but is waking twice again generally (he's not taking as much milk in the day as I'd like).  He is generally happy regardless.  I do agree though that he doesn't need as much sleep as most.  I have already resigned myself to that fact!  But, even for him, this isn't enough - and certainly that long A time in the late pm is not going to help anything.
He wakes around 6.15/6.30 we think (no earlier and not much later) but usually doesn't go to sleep until between 6.45 and 7.00.  He generally has an 11hr day I suppose.  He goes to sleep very easily generally (although for the last couple of nights he's cried which he doesn't do usually, but probably OT I think due to long A time in afternoon).

I left him to sleep this morning as I'd been waking him for the past few days and wanted to see if that would help things - he still only slept for 50 mins.

I have sort of tried to set the first nap time to a similar time but not necessarily a set time.  I will try perhaps putting him down at 9.15 every day and see where we go from there. 

Totally agree, that the naps have to be longer in length.  I'm in a bit of a catch 22 as I am pretty sure he can handle the 3hrs A time, but with him only taking the 2 short naps, it doesn't really work out properly on the timings. 

Any other suggestions? 

Today:
Today 28 Oct
1st nap 9.20-10.10 (45 mins)
2nd nap 1.25pm -  2.50 but woke crying at 1.50, and 2.10 - this nap was after 3hrs 15 mins A time (he had cried for about 10 mins before going to sleep) - suspect OT even though he's only had 3hrs 15 mins A time. He woke crying at the end of the nap.
3rd nap 5.40 - put him down at 5.35 for a catnap and he's asleep now (he cried for 5 mins).  This is after 2hrs 50 mins A time as he was fussing a bit.  Even though this is late to put him down for a catnap as he's usually asleep by 6.45/7.00 we would no way have made it until bedtime and he would have been OT and it's difficult for me to do an early bedtime with a toddler.  It's early enough as it is!!!

Any other suggestions?  Comments?
Thanks
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lilac83

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Re: I'm back - getting worse again :(
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2008, 21:52:31 pm »
My suggestion would be to really stick with something for a few days instead of jumping all over the place. Try laying him down in the AM at 9:15 consistently for a few days and see if that gets you anywhere. Try not waking him for a few days and see where that gets you as the goal is 2 good naps. Then for the afternoon, if he takes under an hour nap in the AM, shoot for as close to 3h 15m A time as you can get, if you start getting a good AM nap chances are this will have to lengthen. However, in that case, just increase by 15 minutes and stay with that for a few days. Hopefully, if you're consistent for a few days, his body clock can work itself out. I'm thinking right now because his naps vary in length every day and his A times vary in length every day, his body isn't sure what to do.

Does he give you any tired cues or do you basically have to go by the clock? I have a clock baby and it can drive me nuts sometimes figuring her out! I really think the key here is consistency, consistency, consistency! :)

Offline Tobysmum

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Re: I'm back - getting worse again :(
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2008, 23:18:10 pm »
Ok - will try putting him down at 9.15 for a few days and see what happens.  I won't wake him.  If he takes under an hour I'll make sure he's asleep around the 3hr 15 min mark (put him down at about the 3hr 5 mark?) 
I tend to look at both tired cues and the clock - since I cannot rely on his cues alone.  I also find that he seems to sleep a bit better if we've been out/had some  more stimulation, but that's not always the case (and not always able to go out!) 
In my opinion, he's very difficult to read most of the time - if he starts to fuss, I look at the clock to see whether it may be because he's tired.  I have made the mistake in the past by putting him down when I think he's tired as he starts to fuss (probably just bored) but he's UT and ends up not napping very long. 
It's very frustrating to say the least.  I know people have worse problems than me for sure. 
He's happy in himself and that's obviously very important but he needs to get his sleep (and I need my rest too and time to get things done with a very active toddler as well!)
Tonight he did go down for a catnap at 5.40pm for half an hour (he woke up crying as he always does from a catnap) and then he was asleep again at 6.55pm for the night (despite the late catnap he went down easier than last night as I think he'd had enough sleep today).  That catnap time isn't ideal but at least he didn't go to bed OT.
I guess I'll have to try and fit that catnap again until he starts to lengthen his naps? Do you agree?  I wonder if it's going to result in any problems as it was so close to bedtime?
I agree that his naps and A times have been erratic, but honestly I have been really trying to watch his cues rather than watch the clock (as I know BW isn't about clock watching is it) - but clearly that's not working for us!   How can you watch cues if your baby doesn't really show them consistently?
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