Need help with naps please please - 7.5 months

[Tobysmum]

Thanks for that.  Today I put him down for his second nap at 3hrs 10 mins (he had 45 mins this morning) and he didn't fall asleep until 3hrs 28 mins.  He slept for 58 mins.  I am guessing he was OT and that's why I got a short nap?  I would have thought he would have woken earlier if it was OT , so don't know!
We have 2 halloween parties this afternoon back to back - will try and get him to bed as early as possible so he's not OT but it's not going to be easy.
Anyway, will try with those A times and see where that takes us.
Have a good trip and hopefully I'll have good news for you on your return - that said, the clocks change on Saturday night for us  - grrrrr!  At least I don't have much to mess up at this stage!

[Tobysmum]

Me again (I posted before this one too).

Today I put him down for his second nap at 3hrs 10 mins (he had 45 mins this morning) and he didn't fall asleep until 3hrs 28 mins (great    ).  He slept for 58 mins.  I am guessing he was OT due to the longer A time and that's why I got a short nap?  I would have thought he would have woken earlier if it was OT , so don't know!  He was hungry when he woke (2.36pm) - that could also have been why he woke.  He last fed at about 10.45 BF and then solids at 12.00.  What can I do about that - he is usually due for a BF between 2.30-3.00pm.

We have 2 halloween parties this afternoon back to back - will try and get him to bed as early as possible as there is no chance of a catnap -  but it's not going to be easy.  It's also going to be VERY stimulating with kids running around, change of environment and lots of kiddies making noise!
Hmmmm.

[deckchariot]

58 min is actually a pretty good nap!!!  I would not guess OT - that's generally going to give you a 30 min or less nap.  An hour nap is a good nap!  I remember days when Abby would only nap 30 min all day and then one day, she napped for 2 30 min naps and I thought I was in heaven!!!  Strange how your perspective can change   Looking back at your plan, that would put you at least 3 hr 15 min of A time (and since 58 min is really an hour, you could even add 5-15 min on to that).  It looks like it took him about 20 min to fall asleep - which is really pretty normal. 

Keep in mind that 2 parties will be way overstimulating for him, so he may need an extra long winddown to get to sleep tonight, and if he's OT, it could be a rough night.  Time change for us here to tomorrow.  We've been extending Abby's bedtime in the hopes that she'll sleep in on Sunday - doubt that...but I can always hope   Whatever happens with the Sunday wake up, just get him back on track as best as you can and know that Sunday may be a bit wonky.

You've got a good plan, hang in there!!!

[lilac83]

It looks like they agree over in Naps. That's good, at least we're all on the same page. He probably did wake from hunger for that second nap as it had been 4 hours, especially if he's going through a GS. You could try giving him one side before the nap and the other side after if timing keeps being an issue.

Have fun at the Halloween parties! It's too bad he won't take a cat nap, but perhaps he'll just crash tonight (unlikely??). I'll keep my fingers crossed for you!

[Tobysmum]

Yes, it had been about 3 3/4 hours since his last feed, so could have been hunger for sure.  If the timing works like that again tomorrow, I'll try giving him a bit of milk before he goes down for the nap.  I guess as he's never really slept much more than an hour, I haven't really had that feed to consider!
Halloween parties were fun but VERY busy for him!  I aimed to have him asleep for 6.30 - that's what time I put him down sleepy but he didn't settle well.  Don't have high hopes for tonight but am going to try and not give in and feed him as it's the w/e and hopefully DH can help me out a bit.
Am keen to know if it's a GS or something going on - those NWs were bad - he never usually wakes as much as that.

DECKCHARIOT said about our second nap today that it took about 20 mins for him to fall asleep (true) which she said is pretty normal.  (she's away otherwise would have asked her about it!) -  it's really difficult to know how long it's going to take them to fall asleep - sometimes he falls asleep in 5 mins and other times it will take 20 mins - which then makes the A times that you were intending on doing longer or shorter than you wanted.   I guess there is no way around that.  Perhaps if I'd put him down for that first nap earlier, then he may have fallen asleep at the 3hr 15 min mark?  Who knows!
 
Thanks for all your help so far   Will check in again tomorrow.

[lilac83]

What I usually do is lay my LO in her crib about 10 minutes before I actually want her to fall asleep. Sometimes she will fall asleep almost immediately, other times it takes her the whole 10 minutes plus maybe 5 or so. I think as long as your in the general ballpark (5 minutes either way) you should be fine.

[Tobysmum]

Just updating for last night and today.  He went down last night at about 6.55 in the end (he was in bed for 6.30 but took a long time to settle due to OT).  I had fed him at 6.15pm.  He slept right through until 2.30am (great!) and I fed both sides, he then woke at 4.50am not at all happy and didn't resettle until about 5.35am, he was then up for the day at 6.15 (and was hungry again - took 1.5 sides).  Certainly an improvement (he had had a good feed at bedtime), but that 4.50am wake up was not pleasant!

Anyway, today has been better but very strange. I think he has a slight cold but seems happy in himself.  You'll see why it is strange (a very weird A time!)

A 6.15am
E 6.25am BF
E 8.00 Solids
S 9.20am (3hrs 5 min A time - this A time I thought was what we were aiming for for the first nap - how come he only slept 40 mins??)
A 10.00
E 10.45 BF
E 11.40 Solids
Then, he was rubbing really his eyes at about 12.15 - only after 2hrs 15 min A time!!  I really tried to keep him going but it was hard, I really thought he was tired.  I was holding him and then he went a bit limp and he'd basically dropped off to sleep in my arms.  Very strange - he NEVER does that!  Anyway, I took him straight upstairs  - he woke up a bit - but was asleep as soon as his head hit the mattress - I then realised that I had meant to feed him, so I got him up and tried to feed him, he took a few sips but was so zonked out that he wouldn't feed.  I am putting it down to maybe him having a slight cold - or finally all this OT caught up with him!
S 12.45pm (that was when I put him down)
A 2.23pm (he woke crying - guessing from hunger perhaps)
E 2.25pm
S 5.10pm (I had taken him into town after his lunchtime nap and he fell asleep in the car on the way home - yay!!
A 5.35pm
E 5.40pm solids
E 6.30pm BF
S 6.50pm approx.

So yes, a better day - still puzzled why that first nap wasn't great (as usual) - despite us actually getting the target A time right for a change.  Also, that second A time was bizarre! 

I have high hopes for a better night - then the clocks change tonight and then we'll have to start again!!!!

[Tobysmum]

Hi,
I know you are away Michelle, but just updating for last night and today for when you get back   Gus went down last night at about 6.55pm in the end (he was in bed for 6.30 but took a long time to settle due to OT).  I had fed him at 6.15pm.  He slept right through until 2.30am (great!) and I fed both sides, he then woke at 4.50am not at all happy and didn't resettle until about 5.35am, he was then up for the day at 6.15 (and was hungry again - took 1.5 sides).  Certainly an improvement (he had had a good feed at bedtime), but that 4.50am wake up was not pleasant!

Anyway, today has been better but very strange. I think he has a slight cold but seems happy in himself, no other symptoms other than a bit of a crusty nose which seems to have pretty much gone by this evening.  You'll see why the day was  strange (a very weird A time!)

A 6.15am
E 6.25am BF
E 8.00 Solids
S 9.20am (3hrs 5 min A time - this A time I thought was what we were aiming for for the first nap - how come he only slept 40 mins??)
A 10.00
E 10.45 BF
E 11.40 Solids
Then, he was rubbing really his eyes at about 12.15 - only after 2hrs 15 min A time!!  I really tried to keep him going but it was hard, I really thought he was tired.  I was holding him and then he went a bit limp and he'd basically dropped off to sleep in my arms.  Very strange - he NEVER does that!  Anyway, I took him straight upstairs  - he woke up a bit - but was asleep as soon as his head hit the mattress - I then realised that I had meant to feed him, so I got him up and tried to feed him, he took a few sips but was so zonked out that he wouldn't feed.  I am putting it down to maybe him having a slight cold - or finally all this OT caught up with him!
S 12.45pm (that was when I put him down)
A 2.23pm (he woke crying - guessing from hunger perhaps)
E 2.25pm
S 5.10pm (I had taken him into town after his lunchtime nap and he fell asleep in the car on the way home - yay!!
A 5.35pm
E 5.40pm solids
E 6.30pm BF
S 6.50pm approx.

So yes, a better day - still puzzled why that first nap wasn't great (as usual) - despite us actually getting the target A time right for a change.  Also, that second A time was bizarre! 

I have high hopes for a better night - then the clocks change tonight and then we'll have to start again!!!!

[lilac83]

Wow, almost a 2 hour nap! That's great, especially if he's getting sick, poor guy needs his sleep. How sure are you he was awake at 6:15 this morning? That A time is what we're aiming for, but if he is getting sick things are going to be off for a few days.

Good luck with the time change! I gave my LO a late cat nap and then put her to sleep at 8:45pm, so I hope she sleeps in!

[Tobysmum]

I am pretty sure that he did wake at 6.15am but cannot be 100% sure of course!  Did your LO sleep in this morning - hope so!

Last night wasn't bad at all as far as wakings are concerned.  I had expected to have a pretty decent night as naps were better yesterday and we got that illusive cat nap in too so he wasn't OT when he went to bed.  He was asleep around 6.50pm and woke at 10.55pm (I fed both sides) and then again at about 5.00am - both feeds had been over 4 hours.  Then he was up fairly early this morning - problem is that our clocks changed last night and now everything is all over the place.  Not quite sure how to adjust things for that?  Any ideas?  He woke at about 5.30 (in  his mind it was 6.15/6.30 pre clocks changing) and then went down for nap at about 8.35 (would have been 9.35).  I sort of moved things ahead by 15 mins.

As the 9.15 set nap wasn't working I decided to put him down at 9.35  (well, in actual fact it was only 8.35am now the clocks have changed) today (he went to sleep as soon as his head hit the mattress!)  We'll see what that brings us.  I really am not sure what time he woke today although I think it was around 6.30am that's why I did a set nap (the wake up time it could have been fractionally later.)

How do you deal with clocks changing?  DS #1 was great with clocks changing - never affected him at all so never had to do anything really.

Also, another question - I'm concerned that I'm going to run into feeding time with these naps if they get longer.

i.e. say he feeds at 6.30am, he'll be due for next feed around 10.30 (and sometimes he doesn't even make it that long), but if he naps say from 9.30 or an hour or even longer, we are going to potentially run into feeds.  I could give him a top up before I put him down (but I do have a sitter occasionally and that wouldn't be that easy always).  I'm guessing as LOs naps get later due to increased A times that feeds clashing with naps becomes a problem?

We have a busy day today (a birthday party in the morning and a halloween party this afternoon) - will check in later with update on today.

[lilac83]

Hi,

How did that first nap pan out with the slightly longer A time? With clocks changing you're doing exactly what you're supposed to do by moving things ahead 15 minutes each day.

Concerning the feedings, how are things coming along with solids? I think solids are supposed to be what bridge that gap between milk feeds. I don't have much experience with solids since my LO hasn't even started them yet. I know you said you have a thread going in the BF board, so perhaps you should ask their opinion on that one.

Are you sticking with the plan of 3h 15m A time again today or are you going to try increasing it to 3h 30m if he took a good first nap? It seems like he's pretty consistently giving you UT naps with the 3h 15m A time, so it's worth considering.  If his A times can stay consistently 3 hours or more, he should be fine with just the 2 naps and you can get rid of that cat nap. Crossing fingers!

We survived our first clock change! I gave her a later cat nap, kept her up an hour longer and she slept in an hour later, thank goodness (sigh of relief)! She seems to be like you said your first is, it just doesn't affect her.

Let me know how today goes!

[Tobysmum]

Well, as I didn't really know when he woke I decided to do a set nap of 9.30am (but because he's still on the old time it was actually 8.30!!) unless I know when he wakes and then I'll stick with the 3hrs from when he wakes.  I think he probably woke at about 6.30am (but was actually 5.30am after clock change) but can't be sure. 

Today has so far gone (with clock change):

A 5.30am approx
E 5.35am BF approx
E 7.15am (solids)
S 8.35am
A 9.15am
E 10.15am
S 10.55am (he fell asleep on a children's train ride in DHs arms - VERY unusual)
A 11.35am
E 12.30 pm (solids - yes, I actually forgot to give him his solids today so this was when I remembered!)
E 1.30pm (he started to drift off to sleep in my arms but had a second wind when the feed had finished)

Am planning on putting him down now actually although he doesn't seem especially tired - but we have a party at 3.30pm to go to!

Strange day yet again - this time change is throwing us for sure.  He's pretty much on the old time still and it's not that easy to move things 15 mins due to him having a tendency to get so OT.

Will check in later.

[lilac83]

Perhaps with the time change and his sensitivity to OT you could try to squeeze in 4 naps one day and put him to bed an hour later to see what happens. I fear that if you stretch this out too long it's just going to get worse. This means he would have a 13 hour day one day, but it may be better that way than having 3-4 days of putting him to bed OT because you tried to stretch his times out. What do you think?

[deckchariot]

That looks like a much better day!! YAY!!!!  If he is getting sick, that could mess up his naps!  About the 40 min am nap - could be a couple different things - he could be UT and needs a bit more A time, he could be waking a the sleep cycle transition (remember when you were waking him during this nap?  It could now be a learned habit).  If you've been doing the 3 hr. 5 min A time for at least 3 days and that nap is still around 40 min, I'd add a few min to that A time  - try for 3 hr 15 min (keep the rest of your plan the same for now) for 3 days and see if that helps.  If it's not been 3 solid days yet, I wouldn't change anything, he may just need to adjust.  If you don't think he can do 3 hr 15 min in the am, you may want to give 3 hr 5 min a few more days to see if that settles out with the first nap.  If he keeps waking at 40 min, you may want to try w2s because it may be a habitual waking.  But overall, that looks like great progress!!!! 

[deckchariot]

After some discussion, we're going to merge this thread with the one on the naps board, so Robin and I aren't giving you conflicting advice