Same problem since lo was 4months!!

[emz1907]

AArrgghhhh,

I apologise in advance for anyone who has previously tried to help me with this problem but Im still struggling and nothing has changed since lo was 4months old!! He is now 1. The problem is ew's, very ew infact the 4.30am mark - ick! He has been a ew like I say since about 4 months and nothing I mean NOTHING gets this monkey to sleep later. Ive tried tweaking nap times, A times, bed times with no success A month or so back he was waking more the 5/5.30am mark and I thought finally we're getting somewhere, but he slipped back to the 4.30am and with the clock change I had no chance When he wakes he mostly just babbles to himself so we leave him be until nearer 6am which we find a more 'acceptable' time to rise. But he does often start wake whiney making a alarm type noise 'aaaah aaaaah' which increases in volume. I have tried going in when he first starts and giving him a bottle which results in one of two things...1) He poops and carrys on with noise  OR 2) goes to doing same noise but with quiet periods inbetween. He never goes back to sleep anyway. My presence in the room just makes him more alert which is why we try to leave him if he is not distressed. He is far more likely to go back to sleep on his own than if I was there patting or sshhing etc. Ill post his current routine for you...

4-5am - wakes
6am - milk 7-8oz
7am - breakfast cereal
8-9am (depending on wake time) - nap usually 1-2hrs but closer to 1 these days
11am - snack
12-12.30 - lunch sandwich/fruit/cheese etc
1-2pm (depending on last wake time) - nap very hit and miss these days
3-4pm light snack
5pm - Dinner
5.30/6pm - Bath routine, milk 7-8oz
6-7pm - bed sleep

Obviously these times vary slightly depending on wake times or if he has had a second nap or not. Im aware his naps are starting to go wonky which I think is the start of 2-1 nap switch. From what Ive read its best to keep him on 2 naps as long as possible which is what Im trying to do. Ive tried lengthing the first A time which resluted in an ot baby who didnt take a 1st nap at all or a very short one. Ive tried phasing back his bedtime bit by bit which is a struggle but he still wakes the same time regardless. He was taking a 7pm bedtime for a few weeks after me trying to push it back but there was no difference in his wake up time. He seems to be able to handle 4-4.5hrs A time but anymore and he really suffers with ot then the day is a nightmare for us. Any ideas/suggestions??

[Zoey]

Hi there

What's he eating for dinner? 

If you feed him at this time, how much does he eat?

Any night wakings?  If so is he hungry?

How does he seem when he wakes?  Awake and happy, or still tired?

What's his room like, very, very dark?  Or just sort of?

How does he fall asleep for night and naps?

[emz1907]

Hiya

He normally has a hot meal for Dinner like beef stew/chicken and tomatoes/corned beef hash/pasta and sauce something like that. He also has a pudding which may be a yoghurt/fruit/mousse etc.

Do you mean feeding him when he first wakes 4-5am? He will drink the whole bottle as he usually does with his first bottle. If you mean at dinner time he eats a good amount, its very clear when he has had enough as he pushes the spoon away and will turn his head away.

When he wakes he is mostly happy and awake. The odd time he will be a bit grumpy but its definetly more happy.

His room is pitch black, we have black out blinds as we discovered when he was young this is how he sleeps better. When he wakes very early you wouldnt be able to see your hand infront of your face.

He falls asleep pretty easy, usually within 10mins after a few setlling moans and thrashing about witgh his blankie sometimes instantly if he is very tired.

[~Karen~]

Hi emz - Happy birthday to Callum!

We still haven't really cracked it but I've put him on one nap now as following the advice a friend gave me when her son was an ew and she went to a sleep clinic.  They told her that at one they should drop the morning nap and to get them to stay up as long as they can before having a nap.  I'm giving it a go and right now he's going down for his nap about 1130am (meant to limit to 2 hours but I've been letting him sleep until he wakes, usually about 2.5 hours) and always keep betime at the same time of 7pm no matter how long he naps for.  He is sleeping later in the mornings now but he was ill last week so we took him in bed with us and of course he's now waking in the night expecting it.  I can't win!!!

[Zoey]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Since 4m old huh?  Maybe that's his time lol?

This is hard because it he isn't crying you can't do anything like WI/WO.

I think you're doing the right thing by staying out if he doesn't need you, and also by holding the first feeding until an acceptable time for waking.

I have a feeling once you move to one nap, he will begin to sleep later.  Not saying that is why he is waking at 430am, because he has been doing it since he was so little - but I'm willing to bet one nap will change this, when it happens.

Does that at least give you hope?    Sorry I can't be more helpful.

[emz1907]

Thanks, Ive always lived in hope that one day things will change. Like you said there seems no reason for his waking other than its just his time. To me though I worry that 4am starts will not be doing him any good in the long run..

[Purplecattypants]

Em, I dont really have any advice but just wanted to drop off some hugs and say wow what an amazing lady you are, coping with it for so long!! 

Have you considered trying wake to sleep as a last resort? 

[emz1907]

I think it was mentioned last time but its something Im really really nervous of tbh. As his wake times do differ slightly I wouldnt be sure exactly when to go in. 3.30am or something??

I suppose it becomes a way of life after a while, I do however keep the matchstick business going with my huge orders to keep my eyelids open

[texasmom]

Well, what do I know?!  But I just had a thought...  DS had the same issue (EW's), and we're dealing with it right now with DD.  It stinks. 

I'm wondering if he is OT since he is sometimes missing that afternoon nap.  My 2 year old STILL wakes early if he gets OT.  I think yours is ready to start making the transition to 1 nap.  What I would do is shorten the first nap to 45 min.  Then you will have to find the appropriate A time before the 2nd nap.  In EASY there is a thread started by Sherry Lynn.  She is transitioning right now.  I bet you will find it helpful. 

So I wouldn't just move him to 1 nap just yet.  I'd do the transition slowly.  Otherwise you might find that he is REALLY OT, and the problem will be worse. 

If you find that he still won't take a nap in the afternoon if he sleeps 45 min in the morning, you would want to shorten it to 30 min.  Some even get down to 10 min.  They still need just a little refresher in the morning and aren't ready to handle just 1 nap.  The gap just gets smaller and smaller b/w the 2 naps until they merge.  Or you do 1 nap one day, 2 naps one day, etc...  Right now, though, I think you should start with 45 min and see what happens. 

Are you on the new time already?  We have not switched yet. 

Brooke

[emz1907]

Thanks for your help Maybe he is OT, some days he seems to tire very easily after not much A time but others he is happy to be awake for over 4hrs. I have always found him hard to read when tired, but these days he gives big clues by rubbing his face on everything soft (although think he may be on the way to ot by this time). I try to stick with set nap times, only slightly varied by an hour or so. Today he actually woke at 5.30am which is rare, although I had heard him a lot earlier but he must have dropped off again. Becuase of this he didnt have his first nap until 9.30am which lasted an hour. he only woke as he got his leg stuck in the cot bars He had his second nap at 2.30pm (put him down at 2pm but took a while to go off) and he only had 30mins as a police siren went off. I could see he was still tired but he was quite upset and wouldnt go back off.

I instantly think of a few concerns over doing as you say (Im a born worrier and always think on the negative side forgive me ). Firstly, I hate waking him on purpose. I used to do that when I first started bw and it led to a long ot cycle which was hard to break so Ive shyed away from it since then. I would worry that he will still be really tired from that first nap and not last long at all until the second one. By then he'd be ot so would either be hard to put down or sleep short becuase of this (which is what normally happens when he's ot). Don't get me wrong, Im willing to try anything its just the questions that pop up in my head.

[texasmom]

Hi again,
I just read the "Nap Strike" thread on this board.  It had some good links to the 2-1 nap switch.  Good info.

I am soooo with you.  I HATE waking my LO's and NEVER do it unless I have to.  So I completely understand.  I think in this case, though, it's beneficial b/c he is sometimes missing that afternoon nap, which he probably needs.  So what you want to see is that he gets a refresher in the morning to avoid OT, and then in the afternoon, you let him sleep as long as he needs.  So the A time before his 2nd nap is shorter so that he doesn't get OT. 

I think the possibility of OT is worse in the current situation than if you wake him from his first nap b/c he is sometimes having a long A time before bed. 

Also, I have started using a white noise CD in both of my kids' rooms.  Now, I would NEVER go back to not having it.  So in the case of the police siren, he would have slept right through.  And I never worry about being quiet b/c the white noise drowns out quite a bit.  It's a beautiful thing!   

Really hope things get better. 

[emz1907]

Thanks Ill take a look at those other threads. Im so nervous of making this move to 1 nap, I know when he was younger things changed all the time but he has been on this routine for quite a few months. I think I got too comfy with our little set up and forgot these babies like to keep us on our toes LOL

[texasmom]

oh so true.