Baby Jekyll & Hyde!!

[mum2talia]

I was really hoping I wouldn't have to post in this section but I need some help and advice!

My LO is almost 6 months now and an extremely happy baby in the day - textbook I think - but at nighttime changes to Mrs Hyde! She has been waking up at least 6 - 8 times a night now screaming. 2 months ago we stopped the dummy as she was waking up every hour crying when it dropped out. After a few nights of shush pat she seemed to have transitioned really well (I gave her a lovey which she likes to stuff in her mouth). But since then it hasn't really got much better. She has trouble putting herself to sleep now and everytime she wakes up I have to shush pat for 5 - 10 mins. I don't think I'm sleeping more than 2 hours in one go at the moment. She is sleeping in the same room so when she screams it's right in my ear. I'm slowly losing it.... What worries me is that she also can't be getting a good sleep either if she's waking up so often. Sometimes after we wake up in the morning she goes back to sleep for 2 hours I think because she's so tired.

Her naps are great, she doesn't seem to be in pain or cry about anything in the day so I'm at a loss as to what it is. She's a healthy 7.1 kg and I feed her at 12am and at 5/6am during the night. I'm breastfeeding her in the day (both sides), giving her bottles of formula at night and she's eating broccolli and baby rice for lunch (started solids 2 weeks ao).

Here's a typical routine...

8am WU
10am Nap (1 - 2 hrs)
12.30 Eat (bf)
1.30 Eat (solids)
2.30 Nap (45 mins  - 1.5 hrs)
4.30 Eat (bf)
6.30 (bath)
7pm (bottle & sleep)
12am (df bottle)
5/6am eat (bf)

Does anyone have any suggestions??

From a desperate mum xxx

[Vicku]

Hi!

Could she be teething do you think? Has she had any teeth yet?
It might also be that shh/pat isn't working so well anymore and that she's become dependent on it, more as a prop? At her age you could try using PU/PD instead as a tool for helping her learn independent sleep.  Are you planning on keeping her in your room or moving her into a room of her own? Sometimes that can help improve things and help everyone sleep better.

x Vicku

[mum2talia]

Thanks Vicku. She might be teething as she has rosy cheeks and is chewing on everything at the moment but then she's been sleeping badly for 2 months now! I'll start trying PU/PD and see how that goes. Could that become a prop too or do they just tire of it? I'm really thinking about giving her the dummy again too as I tried it one night and she slept much better. Am I in for more pain if I give in now? Just want some sleep even if it's for a few hours Would love to move her into her own room but we only have one bedroom at the moment so need to find some kind of solution.

[Vicku]

Hello again,
well the teething won't help sleep, and sometimes it can go on for months. It always does for my LO affects her for ages before I realise it's teething, then we get the rosy cheeks and chewing and I relise that's what it was. Have you tried giving medicine at night to see if she sleeps better? Would give you a better idea of if it's pain induced wakings.

PU/PD is different than shh/pat and more suitable as they get older as they are going to sleep independantly. Check out the PU/PD board for more info and support on how to do it etc.
The dummy thing is a very personal choice. It is not adviced to do PU/PD with a dummy unless they can 're-plug' themselves, as the dummy is a prop until they can.
You can either go for PU/PD without the dummy, or give the dummy back, see how it goes (if sleep improves) and try to encourage independent use of it (i.e. helping her practice finding it and putting it in herself, and putting several dummies in the cot so it's easier for her to find it. DD had 10 dummies in her cot at one stage LOL ) and THEN go for PU/PD when she's independently using it, if you still have NWs. Most babies can start learning to 're-plug' independantly between 6-8 months old if encouraged a little.

As I said it's a very personal choice, and noone can make that but you. One note on PU/PD though is that I wouldn't do it unless I was totally 100% committed to it and prepared, as it can take a while, and giving in half way will only make things worse. It's a great tool though, but read up and prepare yourself first so you know you have the staying power, and preferrably the support, to succeed.

Good luck whichever way you decide to go! And let us know how you go

[mum2talia]

Hi Vicku I tried some Calpol last night and it turned out to be one of our worst nights! She woke up crying between 8 and 10 times through the night... something like 8.30, 9.30, 11, 12, 1.15, 3, 3.45, 4.30, 5.20... I fed her at 12 and at 5.20, gave her the dummy the other times and she seemed to settle but woke up again an hour later (dummy still in her mouth). I am absoloutely at a loss as to what it is and getting very desperate. I screamed at her last night through utter frustration and fatigue and then spent the next half hour in tears because I felt so bad. It was not a good night

Any other advice to try? Not sure the PU/PD would work as she seems to wake up as soon as I pick her up (she's crying in her sleep) but will give it a go if it might help. Was also thinking of feeding her more (changing from breast to formula and giving her another meal of solids in the day).

[knackered]

Hi there. Just wanted to ask - are you sure that her cries are 'I  need you' cries rather than mantra cries? If she's still asleep when she's crying then perhaps this is her mantra cry. I know my DS often cries out in his sleep but if left he'll eventually settle back. Could you hold back from going in straight away and see if she'll settle herself?

Anna x

[Vicku]

Anna might be right that it could be a mantra cry if it's in her sleep.
How long do you wait before going to her when she wakes?
It could still be teething even if this was the worse night and you'd given calpol. Ibuprofen is more effective for teething and might work better.
Let us know how tonight goes x

[yaya]

Hows it going?

[mum2talia]

Hi there. I think you're right some of them are mantra cries and I've been trying to let them go on the past few nights to see what happens but almost every time it becomes a cry. We wait around 5 minutes not longer than 10 usually. Is that about right? And that's a killer as we're lying in bed next to her biting our nails. I can't start PU/PD as I'm about to go abroad to visit my family for 6 weeks and will be really hard to carry it through. Can try Ibuprofen but would I have to give it to her every night if she's crying like this every night??? I'm so at a loss. I tried to give her the dummy again but she won't take it now. How ironic

[Vicku]

Well if the Ibuprofen does help I'd give it for a few nights then try without to see if things have improved. Since you're going away it might be better to wait til your back again to start sleep training.

[yaya]

You can try the ibuprofen for a few nights and teething gel ,if it makes a difference then you know it's teeth.
If you can continue the pu/pd then you are right in postponing. It is really hard to say how long to wait with a mantra cry as some babies mantra cry for quite soem time befpore fallign asleep. Only you as LOs mum can tell what is an 'i need you ' cry and what isnt....does it turn into a real desperate cry?
here's a useful link for you:

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64160.0