feed or not.....

[anitad67]

my girl is 8 month exactly today and has been breast feeding only since she was 2 month old.  shortly after she was 2 month old she refused to have bottle.  it has been ok since she got to about 6 month and my milk supply just started to drop off.  i didn't worry too much about it as she seemed to LOVE solid.  but i just can't get rid of the night wakings and twice of those wake ups she just won't settle until i feed her. 

my milk is almost all gone by now, not sure whether it is just time (8 month) and age (i am 41) or because i am tired as she wakes up literally every hour at night if not more and only takes 30~40 mins nap during the day.  last thursday night she woke up at 2:30 am and just wouldn't settle.  i totally got no milk after feeding her around 11 pm (that must have been a small feed!).  so she just stayed awake till morning (still refusing bottle) and ate some breakfast.  friday night roughly the same thing although she drank about 1 oz of bottle.  saturday night went by about the same and finally sunday night she toke bottle during the night and went back to sleep soundly. 

right now my milk is still just barely there.  i am hesitating whether i should still breast feed her.  it is basically nothing but i know if i don't feed her it will be really nothing.  however if i feed her i am afraid that she will refuse bottle again and we had to go through the same process.  i am totally tired out....

any thoughts?  thanks a lot in advance!!!

[RachelC]

Hi there and {{{hugs}}}

Can you outline your daily routine and how much milk/solids she is getting as well as A time how long her naps are?  At this point, milk still needs to be the primary source of nutrition and I would suspect that if she isn't getting the milk, that may be the cause of her waking at nights, as well as her being overtired.  How do you know you are not producing the milk?

[Jocasta]

Agree with Rachel that an outline of your routine would be very helpful.

In the meantime, don't lose faith.  Firstly, it's very difficult to know that you have no milk. 

For example, at any point past the six month makr, women tend to lose that "full" feeling. 

Pumping only tells you how much you are able to pump and is absolutely NO reflection of how much milk you are actually producing.  A lot of what a baby takes will actually be made DURING the feed.  A pump will not stimulate this instant production and will only take a percentage of what's already in the breast.

It definitely sounds like you have routine issues and the night wakings are possibly more down to her being over tired than hunger per se.  She may have gotten into the habit of needing to nurse to sooth herself back to sleep during the night. 

Firstly, it is important to remember, as Rachel has said that milk should definitely be the primary source of nutrition up until the 12 month mark.  And breast milk is far superior to formula. 

There are plenty of ways to boost your supply:

* Switch nursing.  You let your lot take the first breast.  When she comes off on her own, you put her to the second.  When she is done with the second, you put her back to the first and so on and so forth.  This will encourage a further let down as well as tell your body that you need ot make more milk.

* Herbal supplements such as fenugreek and blessed thistle (also known as holy thistle) and Mother's Milk Tea can all help, as can oatmeal and wheat beer.  I've even heard some people rave about icecream - not got any personal experience but where's the harm in trying

* pumping directly after a feed for at least five minutes per breast (but preferably 15 minutes) can really help boost your supply.  Even if you don't notice any milk, this will be sending the right signals to your brain.  A good rule of thumb is that it takes 48hrs for your body to respond to a change in demand so by the third day, you should be producing more - you may not notice this increase yourself for some time as ideally your lo will be drinking it all

* skin to skin contact is very beneficial as this increases your oxytocin levels - this is one of the primary milk producing hormones.  Strip yourself and lo off and have a lovely long bath together or do some naked play if your house is nice and warm.

* remember that the best thing to improve your supply is your baby so it's best to let her nurse as often and for as long as possible when trying to boost your supply...

That's all I can think of right now...

[anitad67]

now i feel like a bad mom    i thought she loves the solid and it should be ok to give less milk now.

i have been drinking only fenugreek and milk (recently changed to soy milk since i suspect my is somewhat allergic to milk.  she got a rash that disappears in about half an hour around her mouth each time she eats something with dairy in it).  but the last 2 weeks or so when i nurse she sucks so hard and long to the point that my breast hurt. 

here is what happened yesterday.  she is having a cold right now so not sure how much her waking up was due to that.  first time today that she woke up and had some milk from bottle...  how much milk should 8 month takes each day?

today started at 6:30.  she finally drank from bottle last night at 4:30 (woke up a LOT before midnighand then settled down to sleep till 6:30.  had a bit from bottle as my milk wasn't coming.

7:00 breakfast.  barely ate

she looked tired so i thought i tried to put her to sleep at 8 am.  she almost fell to sleep but probably i left too early she snapped back and wouldn't settle.  looked totally awake so i wonder whether i made a mistake in timing and took her out and she ate some solid.

8:40 i put her back to crib again.  took 40 mins hard long PU/PD before she finally fell to sleep at 9:40.

10:10 woke up.  failed extending nap.  took her to our bed and breast fed her.  i think it was mainly the comfort that got her back to sleep.  i know i should have done PU/PD but i was just so tired so chose the easier route and had a bit sleep myself.

11:20 woke up.  tried to bottle fed but won't take.  had a little bit fruit.

11:40 a
12:20 lunch.  ate decent amount
1:45 put her to crib.  no sleep till 3 pm after long painful PU/PD
not sure i finally got 1 extension worked or she just got through herself.  this nap did last till 4:15.

didn't want snack or bottle.  dinner at 6 pm.  then bath
7pm put to bed.  fell to sleep at 7:40

then woke up like clock at 40~45 mins mark.  not sure it is because she is still uncomfortable with her cold or just hasn't master going through the sleep cycle herself yet...

[Jocasta]

Right, if you want to breast feed successfully, you really need to stop offering her the bottle - this will do nothing but harm your supply.

As for nursing her to sleep, in all honesty, when your lo is over tired (and waking at the 30 minute mark is a classic sign of this) you should do ANYTHING you can to get them back to sleep to combat the over tired monster - so you can officially stop beating yourself up about that

I personally think you need to go back to basics.  What I mean by this is to just throw out ideas of a routine just for now.  Spend a couple of days just getting up in the morning and nursing as often and for as long as your lo will allow.  Do this in a really gentle way.  Spend the day just holding her, playing together - fitting in as much skin to skin as possible.  Guide her to your breast whenever the urge takes you and don't restrict her time.  Snuggle together etc.

This should help your supply and hopefully help her sleep better.  Do whatever you need to to get her to sleep when she needs it and any routine issues can be resolved later.