Is Snacking Really An Issue?

[sadiebean]

Hi,
I'm dealing with a round-the-clock eater (6 months old, no real solids to speak of=BLW, have posted recently). He seems genuinely hungry at night, waking every 3 hours. I don't even have a chance to DF him b/c he wakes at 9-9:30ish to eat (goes to bed at 6:30).

During the day, I feed him after his naps and then again before his next sleep, which seems like what a lot of BFing moms do.

But could I be encouraging snacking=small tummy=not enough in the belly before bed?

I feed him till he refuses anymore, so I don't know that I could get more in him anyway. But thought I'd ask.
thanks!!

[lisi's mum]

A problem is only a problem if it's a problem for you. If you want to change the situation we can help, but if you're happy with the way things are then it's no problem to stick with it.

[Samuel's mum]

What she said

[Peek-a-boo]

marking my spot

[Jocasta]

Yep, definitely only a problem if it's bothering you.  Is it a problem for you?

[sadiebean]

Well, yes, it feels like a problem

Though now that we've dealt with a bad cold and now freakish teething, I realize his bad sleep is HORRENDOUS when any other stress is added, and I long for the "good ole days" of sleeping 2.5hrs in btwn wake ups. And it makes me wonder if helping him sleep better when he's well will also help him sleep a little better when he's not. We're desperate over there...

So, when this tooth finally pops, I would like (for a third time!) to help him drop a feed at night and want to be sure I'm helping him tank up during the day as much as possible.

Thoughts on that?

[sadiebean]

Now he's waking 5-7x at night.

yes, yes, yes this an issue.

So: Could shorter feeds be part of the problem?

[lilmonkey]

Have you tried breast compression?  I have a small milk capacity (6 oz if pumped when engorged) so I fed often during the day.  I even continued with clustered feeding till around 6 mos.  I like to think that it is because of ds getting the fattier hind milk that he is down to just 1 or 2 feeds at night. 

HTH a little

[Peek-a-boo]

If it's 5-7 x per night, I don't see how it could all be b/c of hunger. 

Could you post your current EASY routine?

How does your LO fall asleep at the beginning of the night?  Any props?  Are you in the room or out?

[sadiebean]

Mimi: I try compression now and then. He eats till he's full after every nap, then again before the next nap (though he doesn't fall asleep eating.) So he eats about 7-8 times during the day.

Bethany: He falls asleep on his own for all sleeps. I sing him a song as we go to his room, then I lay him down, he snuggles in, might talk a bit, but as often as not just snuggles right in and goes to sleep. Occasionally he fights sleep when going down for the night, but not usually.

Day schedule varies somewhat because night sleep is so varied, so wake up and tiredness is changeable. Still, this is fairly accurate:
6:30 wake
Eat 2x
8:30-9 Nap 1 (1.5-2hrs)
Eat 2x
12:30ish Nap 2 (1.5-2hrs)
Eat 2x
4ish Catnap (40min)
Eat 2-3x
6:30 Asleep after final nursing, but awake before going into crib. Though very sleepy.... I want him to concentrate on eating though, to get as much as possible, as he's at a very distractible age. So I feed him in his room. But no props, and I'm out of the room.

* Could he be too sleepy going down at night?

I haven't really done much w/solids, he doesn't seem interested, and what I'm reading confirms my suspicions that it may just replace milk, not add to calories, and anyway he really needs to be getting his calories from milk.

On a "good" night, he eats 4x after bedtime (inc. DF), so about every 2.5-3 hrs. But he seems SUCH a light sleeper that any disruption (illness, teeth, congestion) has him needing us all night long. He's already awoken 3x since going to bed tonight, and it's just 10pm now - though I haven't fed him since it's been so early in the night, and he hasn't seems to be asking for it.

I don't know what to do at this point. We did 2 back to back weeks of sleep training last months. After 4 nights each of lots of crying, we finally reduced the night feeds to 2... only to have fever and then illness send us back to square one. And now, b/c of said illness and fever=teething, we are wretchedly tired after a month of no sleep. Plus, if disruptions so easily result in lapsing back to old patterns, is it even worth it? Do some babies ultimately just need to grow out of NW on their own, assuming of course you've given them all the tools you could?

[Peek-a-boo]

IMHO, yes, it's possible he's too sleep when he's going into the crib.  If he falls asleep nursing and then is moved to the crib awake, but milk drunk, and then nursed after most wakings--to me that sounds like the nursing in order to get drowsy/sleepy has become a prop.  You mention in a previous post nursing before naps--is that similar to the before bed nursing or are you doing that in another room and with more time b/t nursing and sleep?

My baby is 6 months old too and super distractible as well.  We struggle with the before bed feed because if we do it in her room (did this tonight for the first time in a weeks) she eats more, but then she starts to fall asleep at the end of the feed.  My LO then gets mad if I don't let her fall asleep feeding and is frustrated and screaming going into the crib.  This is why we mostly do the feed out of the nursery even though she's way more distracted and doesn't seem to take in as much. 

Okay, this is just me, and if others following along disagree, please don't hesitate to chime in.   I but I personally think that a healthy 6 month old who has regular access to the breast during the day couldn't need to be nursed more than twice (every 4 hours) at night.

I'm not saying this is the right thing to do, this is just what I would do if I were in your shoes:
--I'd move the feed before bed out of the nursery and make sure LO doesn't fall asleep during the feed, goes in the bed awake.
--If LO wakes and it's less than 3.5-4 hours since his last feed, I'd resettle him without feeding.  If it's been 4 ish hours since his last feed, I'd feed, try to keep on eye on his sucking and end the feed before he's fully asleep so that he's aware of his surroundings when he goes back in the crib. 

I'd give that 2 weeks and see where it gets you and then reassess.  Again, not saying this is the right course of action, just what I'd do if I were in your shoes.

[sadiebean]

Thanks Bethany!
I think you're ideas are excellent and common-sensical, and I'm using them.
Last night was night one, too soon to report success (I esp. appreciate you saying give it 2 weeks -- I need a perspective like that!) though I think I learned he's OT when going to bed, b/c he's waking up a few times before 9pm!? that's OT, right?

I just hope that he's tired enough that putting him to bed at 6pm won't invite a 5am wake up tomorrow...

But anyway, he's waking up screeching (for the fun of it...) at 5:30-6am now anyway, which is AWESOME (not!) after being woken every 1.5 hrs. And this morning I was able to put him back in his crib at 6:15 after being awake only 45min, and he slept till 8:30am. Clearly he wasn't done sleeping.

[Peek-a-boo]

Yes, he sounds OT.  As you unforutanatly know first hand, night sleep that is disrupted every hour or two isn't very recooperative.    Hope things improve.