Getting daughter to settle herself down

[Arianne]

My daughter is one month old and I'm trying to teach her to settle herself down (rather than falling asleep using a prop: in our arms, in a car seat, in the stroller, etc.).  We're having trouble because she usually will cry and cry when we put her down to nap.  (Middle of the night is okay right now because I nurse her and she goes back to sleep easily.)  I've tried letting her cry, but she will cry on and off for an hour (or more) and often each bout of crying will last for 10 or 15 minutes.  If I pick her up, she calms down and will fall asleep in my arms - but I know that's not the goal here.  I don't know if I should let her cry it out and she'll eventually "figure it out" or if there is something else I should be doing to help her with this. 

With my two year old son, I would rock him, hold him, etc until he fell asleep and finally let him cry it out when he was close to three months.  I'm trying to help my daughter with her sleeping sooner, but I'm feeling like she's too young - but I know that can't be true.

Any help would be appreciated.

[Arianne]

It looks like it would be helpful if I provided a little more information...
The first feeding of the day is usually somewhere between 5 a.m. and 6 a.m. - depending on how the night goes.  From there she eats every three hours (occasionally she's ready to eat after 2.5 hours).  Her activity usually only lasts about 20 to 30 minutes, except in the afternoon when she's up longer - maybe 45 minutes after the 2 or 3 o'clock feeding.  The most difficult napping period is after the 5 or 6 o'clock feeding and activity - she just doesn't settle down well.  Then, after the 8 or 9 o'clock feeding, she usually goes down pretty easily (my husband does this feeding - she gets her one bottle of formula per day, which tends to get her to sleep a little longer - which means I get a decent block of sleep after my son goes down and before my daughter wakes for her first of two middle of the night feedings).  This last feeding before the middle of the night does not include any activity - my DH feeds her and then rocks her a bit and puts her down.  In the middle of the night, she goes down after a feeding without a problem (so far). 

I am feeling a bit desperate to get this figured out so that I can have time with my DS when he gets home from school and before he goes to bed.  Right now, most of that time is spent with my DD while she's fussing, or we all are listening to her "screaming" from her room while we are trying to have dinner and spend some time with my DS. 

Please let me know if additional information would be helpful in getting some advice.

Thank you.

[angelamk1]

Is it hard to settle at day time sleeps or is it just the 5-6pm one?  It could be that difficult time of night that some babies have.  I know some people think it is wind related and have found things like gripe water have helped. 

Do you have a set bedtime routine - is this your bedtime or last nap?  What is your winddown?  The last nap before bedtime for my son was always his most difficult so i used to walk him in the pram or rock him till sleepy but not asleep.  I always said it's just one nap out of the whole day so you are still teaching independent sleep at the other times but if this is just their difficult time then you might have to help her for a little bit longer. 

It doesn't sound like she has the sort of personality that will let you cry it out if she's held on for that long previously. 
Have you tried the shh/pat method?

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=26672.0

[Arianne]

The most difficult one is the 5/6 time, so it may just be her fussy time. 
Bedtime routine is with dad - he feeds her, changes diaper, swaddle her, hold her and talks to her quietly and then lets her eyes get heavy and he puts her down in her bed - she goes down without a problem for this.  This happens around 8 or 8:30 each night. 
So, it sounds like we still need to work with her on independent sleep for this one time - it's just too bad it's the same time that we get "family time" with my son (who is in daycare all day).  But, we'll keep working on it and get her there. 
I appreciate the advice to try the shh/pat method - I actually did that last night and it calmed her down, but then she's work back up to a scream pretty quickly and I let her cry for a while, and then went back in to calm her - this lasted until her next feeding time, so it was a trying evening, but I'll stay at it until she learns to settle herself down for this nap.
Thank you for the advice - it's so nice to get feedback as we work through this time. 

[angelamk1]

It does sound like just that fussy time.  If all the other sleeps are ok and she's learning independent sleep then i'd use whatever works at that 5-6 time.  My lo grew out of this fussy time by about 3-4 months. 

[Arianne]

Thanks - that's great advice.  I also tried the pat/shh method, and it does settle her down, but she gets worked back up when I stop...
I'm also now finding that some of her other nap times, she will cry a few times and then settle back down, but once today she got so fussy, that she awoke from her nap a half hour early - but wasn't rooting, so I don't think she was hungry.  I ended up holding her and giving her a pacifier until her next feeding - is that terrible accidental parenting, or is that okay?

[angelamk1]

That's fine, you have to give your baby what she needs and sometimes that's help to calm down or get to sleep.  I don't think it's accidental parenting at all but considered and judicious use of the paci.  I use the paci a lot with my boy but carefully too and he is not addicted at all.  I mostly use it when we are out and i need him to sleep or when everything else fails.  He loves it but doesn't need it to sleep.  I used to use it to extend naps quite effectively, to get him back onto longer sleeps when we weaned the swaddle.

It sounds like you did just the right thing.  And i really stand by once a day being able to do whatever for that one sleep because most babies have a tricky time of day or you need to get them to sleep while out etc.  Those times just do what you need to which means you can still have a life.

[Arianne]

Thank you for the support.  I do have one more question: is it okay to let her cry (on and off) for a half hour or so to get her to sleep at other times of the day?  Her cries are not hysterical, but they are definitely forceful cries.  She'll cry for 2 or 3 minutes and then sleep for five to eight minutes and then back to crying - this can go on for up to 45 minutes and then she sleeps for a while.  I've tried the pat/shhh for 20 - 30 minutes, but the same thing happens (and my arm gets really tired).  :-) 
What's the best route to take?

[angelamk1]

That's a tough one and i think it's up to you whether you think she is distressed or just trying to zone out or blow off some steam.  Shh/pat doesn't work for everyone. 

[jess, lukeys_mom]

Dear Arianne,

I just saw this thread and wanted to reiterate what the previous poster has mentioned... As you may or may not already know this website is set up around the series of Baby Whisperer books by Tracy Hogg. Tracy believed that letting a baby cry it out breaks trust between parent and child. She said many times that there is a gentler solution for every situation, we just have to find it.
(For what it's worth my ds would scream when we laid him down when he was little. It turned out 1) he was a tummy sleeper and 2) he had reflux and was actually screaming in pain from being on his back! Not to say either is what is happening with your dd but just an example of two reasons for the crying)

A very young baby, especially as young as your dd, cries out of some kind of need, and I suspect that in the case of your dd she is still so small that she is really needing to be comforted. It is quite possible she is really not ready for sleep training yet.

Also, you asked about giving the paci.Sheis still so small, the need to suck and get soothing from that is strong so i would definitely not hesitate to let her have the paci when you feel like it will soothe her. She is definitely young enough that using it liberally during the day is not a problem.

I too would try shush pat to comfort her once she is swaddled, and see if you can get her to the point of nearly sleeping before putting her down. If not, perhaps you need to continue rocking her to sleep for now until her sleep starts to sort itself out and then gently wean this or work on the pu/pd method for a little while (from4 months).

I really do understand your need to spend time with your ds, I amabout to go through this too and cherish my short evening times with ds so I know it will be hard with a new baby. But keep in mind this time will not last forever, in the grand scheme of things it will actually be quite short, so if you can just keep it up for a few more months I think you will be able to round a corner without having to leave her to cry now. xx

[Arianne]

Thanks for your input on not letting her CIO yet.  I am so torn - but what you say makes sense.  And, thanks for the reminder about what Tracy says - I have read her book, but it's hard to remember everything she says - that's why I'm finding this site so great! 
Tonight I kept her in a sling while I took care of my DS, since I was doing the single parent thing tonight.  And, then I did put her down briefly and she cried, so I picked her up and held her for the next 45 minutes, which she screamed through (on and off).  Then, it was time for a feeding.  Uh oh - she started crying again... I should run.
Thank you all for your great advice.

[jess, lukeys_mom]

hugs...keep us posted. if you need to use this thread to just vent your frustrations and give us daily (or multiple daily!) updates, do it. we're here to help you get through the difficult times...

[Arianne]

Okay - I think I made it through the week being a single mom - I'm still standing (or sitting or laying down when possible).  My husband is back and so I hope things get a little easier. 
We are now on a three-hour block schedule pretty consistently.  My DD eats every three hours starting at 6 a.m. and my DS gets up around 6:30, so I try to get my DD fed and let my son come in to her room when he gets up and I read a book while my DD finishes nursing.  Here is the rest of the day:
E 6 a.m.
A 6:40-7:15 or 7:30
Take DS to school (day care)

E 9 a.m.
A 9:40-10:15 or 10:30
S I rock her and often give her a pacifier while she's in my arms.  As her eyes close and she stops sucking, I gently remove the pacifier (if it hasn't already completely fallen out of her mouth) and then put her down in her crib.  She usually wakes a bit and cries for 30 seconds to a couple of minutes before settling down for her nap.  (This is typically how she naps whenever we're home - if we're out and she's in the car seat, she usually falls asleep without crying.)

E 12 noon
A 12:40 - 1:15 or 1:30

E 3 p.m.
A 3:40 - 4:15 or 4:30
This next nap is usually in her car seat so I can pick up my DS at school.

E 6 p.m.
Then, rather than letter her have "awake" time and then CIO or try to go down in her crib, I put her in the sling so I can get my DS fed - we usually try to eat around 6:30 (my husband often gets dinner ready, except when he's out of town of course).  My DD is in the sling or in my arms (often with the pacifier).  She has also been gassy lately (so I'm removing "gassy" foods from my diet to see if it helps), and she seems now to be especially gassy at this "fussy" time.  Some nights I have been able to put her down for a half hour or so before she eats again, sometimes I just hold her the whole time - while I'm getting my DS fed, ready for bed, etc.  I have been putting her down for at least 15 minutes (even if she's crying) so I can give my DS a few minutes of attention - even if it's just to give him a hug, get him tucked in to bed, and rub his back for a few minutes. 

E 9 p.m. (this is her one bottle of formula, which my husband gives her - unless he is out of town of course)
I then change her diaper, swaddle her and put her right down - she goes down easily (at least so far). 

She wakes after 3 or 4 hours (each night is different) - so somewhere between 12 midnight and 1 a.m. she is usually up for another feeding.  Again, she then gets a diaper change and re-swaddled and then goes down to sleep.

The last night waking is usually around 4 a.m. where we do the same routine. 

I then get her up at 6 a.m. to start the next day. 

I think we have a pretty good schedule down now - she is 6 weeks old on Monday, so I feel like we got into a routine that makes sense for her age.  I'd love to make the fussy period easier, but the rest of the day/night is pretty good. 

Also, I may change to cluster feeding and a dream feed next week - we'll see what happens.

Thank you all for your advice and encouragement.

[angelamk1]

That sounds like a good routine.  One idea though, have you tried gripe water for that fussy/gassy time.  I have friends who swear by it for gassy babies and it always seems to be that time of night that they are talking about. 

[Arianne]

And, right after I posted this, she proved me wrong - sometimes when I put her down she cries a few times on and off before settling down.  I actually picked her up this time because on the third cycle of crying she got really upset - more than just blowing off a little steam to settle down, and it turns out poor thing had gas.  I'm changing my diet to see if that helps, poor thing.  Already she seems to have less gas this afternoon, so hopefully that means the change in diet is helping.  I also got some simethicone drops to help if needed.