Support for dropping the last nap age 2-3 yrs

[Hester]

no nap today and wide awake still at 8 pm, but I know he's exhausted...
I could do a shorter night, but that would kill me... I'd rather drop the nap...
If only he would be happy between 4 and 7!

[rinajack]

After a late night last nigth both mine are asleep for a nap right now!!! yay! but they were really very tired after going to bed so late last night, it was about 2 hours later than their normal bedtime.

tht 4-7pm period will likely get easier after a couple fo weeks, as he gets used to not napping.  In the meantime, might be a good idea to plan for it - can you do part of dinner in the morning? are there particular activities that keep him happy - for hugh, using hte hose in the afternoon makes him very happy, and they go straight from that to the bath, then dinner, so I plan it for the hardest time of day iykwim.

[clareharley]

Hi,
My little boy isn't 2 yet, he's coming up for 21 months. I'm wondering whether to drop his after lunch nap. Daytime sleep has always been an enormous battle but never more so than now. I usually try for an hour by which time I usually give up because it's so traumatic for both of us. I'd say he goes without any daytime sleep 2-3 times a week now. With no sleep he gets cranky and bitey in the afternoons, but only with me. When he goes to playgroup they tell me he's been fine. He wakes up anything between 1-4 times a night. Should I give up day naps? Do you think he'll start sleeping better at night?
Anyone experienced this at this age?

[Hester]

Rina, I'll try it... means I have to PLAN more yikes! but anything for a peaceful 4-7... THANKS!
Clareharley, I'm going to let someone else answer you since I'm in the middle of it myself and honestly am at a loss myself....

[NiknLily]

Hester have you tried putting him down for his nap earlier by 30mins especially on day after a no nap day.  Lily is doing some serious nap dropping now and thats what has been working for us, and others I know it works for too. 

Clareharley I'd be at least trying to stick with naps for as long as possible, simply because the older they are the better they will handle it.  I'd be suprised if his night sleep would improve if you cut the nap completly.  How is his night sleep normally? does he sleep through when well rested?  Sorry if this is a stupid question but does he go to sleep independantly. 

[rinajack]

Hugh sleeps through on no nap/short nap, and has long NW if he has a long nap.  Most kids are like this, Hugh is certainly the exception I would think - he is 18.5 mo, and not an independant sleeper, although that isn't the sleep issue, becuase we are available to him whenever he likes.


Clareharley - If your lo is already dropping some naps, and the nights aren't better, then it likely won't be your solution. What is your lo's routine? It could be as simple as tweaking the nap time.

[Hester]

yesterday was 9 pm bedtime without a nap, but he slept till 9 am this morning. (NOT something I want to start, but it was great for just this one day...)

Today no nap again, and now at 7.30 he's singing his butt of in bed... BUT it was a disaster between 2 and 4, but not after 4pm... go figure!!!

[rinajack]

Is it because you were organised from 4pm? It really does make a world of difference.  If my kids wont' nap, but seem to be going a bit wild. they either have a bath or play playdough.  But the playdough option works much better if I play too.  Or we watch TV, but again, that only helps if I watch with them.

Hugh had his 30-40 min nap today, we are on track for all to be normal, and hoping for a bedtime around the 7ish mark.

[skatty]

Clareharley my DD went through a nap skipping phase around 21 months and she got way OT and started waking in the night etc and looking through loads of old threads on the toddler sleep board it seems quite common at that age. It actually got fixed with a routine tweak, she had a huge jump in morning A time and it turned out I was putting her down too early even though she was OT and now at 29 months she still needs her nap otherwise she ends up NW again. I really think those NWs you are experiencing are due to OT rather than needing to give the nap up, post your routine and we can see if we can help 

I think Leorah is going to have to give her nap up prematurely before she is ready or at least learn to cope on less daytime sleep than she is getting at daycare, any tips on how to do this? At home now she will not settle for her nap unless I stand with her and hold her hand, now she is this age and at nursery most days I really don't mind as she knows I will only stay if she is still and quiet so calms down enough to fall asleep within 5 mins - much better than no nap or an OT nap as she will then sleep at least 1½ hrs. The last week she has been getting about an hour at nursery so a big improvement but as she is so busy there she comes home so tired still, is there anything I can do to get her used to less day sleep? OI put her to bed early on nursery days but they really aren't good at letting me know exactly what time she slept and when so sometimes she is in bed Ot and takes ages to drop off and it starts to accumalate again 

[rinajack]

Kat - give them a little diary and ask them to write down her sleep/wake times. She sleeps in her pram right, that could be kept in the pram with a pen, handy for them.

Other than that, just do whatever it takes to get good naps on the other days.  At nursery, Leorah isn't alone when she naps is she, so it makes sense that she wants you around when she naps at home. (or at least when she falls asleep).

[skatty]

I thought you meant give Leorah a pen and pad lol!! I imagined her sitting there scibbling all over her face and hands for an hour  They do have a board where they are supposed to write everything but some write how long they were in the pram and others put the actual sleeptime  Usually when I ask how long they say about an hour or about 20 mins or whatever but I guess they have so many kids to look after they don't get specific 

I think you are right that she is now used to others being around when she naps now mixed in with the fact she wants every moment with me to count now and also has to have her bedroom door open at bedtime now whereas she used to lie in the pitch black, I have a feeling the 6 month growth spurt is at play too 

[clareharley]

Hi Skatty,

Our routine goes something like this.

Wake up - 6-7am
Breakfast - 8ish
Activity
Lunch 12ish
Attempt nap 12.45ish
Activity
Dinner 5.30/6pm
Bath 6.45/7pm
Bed
Bottle anywhere between 4-5am

We've always had tremendous sleep issues, especially during the day. I've tried putting him down earlier and later but it's never made much difference. I've usually managed eventually to get him to sleep, firstly by sitting in the room and resting with him (so I show him how it's done) and more recently by leaving the room and going back in every 10 mins. It can often take an hour by which time he's really just exhausted; he doesn't just lie there chatting to himself, he jumps around, throws his toys around, screams, shouts and generally protests. This is really my main concern; that he finds the whole thing so distressing. If he does sleep, it's 1hr 15mins max but often less.

At night time he goes down, independently, without any trouble at all. He has his bath, his milk, we brush he teeth and leave the room and there's no problem. Sometimes he'll chat/sing himself to sleep, other times he's just quite and goes to sleep without any fuss.

Ever since the age of 6 months, he's been waking at 5am and by the age of around 1 year I started giving him milk to get him back to sleep as nothing else worked. He'll then sleep for another hour or two. We still give the milk but now it can be as early as 4am. He is also typically waking around 11pm, 1am, 3am. Sometimes we leave him a few minutes and he settles himself, other times, if he's sounding really distressed, we go in and it can take a while to settle him. More often now he's sounding very distressed when he wakes.

My other reason for wondering whether to drop the nap is that he has recently started getting very distressed when he sees depictions of sleep. So, lots of his favorite books where the characters go to sleep at the end of the story are now too upsetting for him. I mean, he really, really sobs when he sees the bunny or the wombat or whatever asleep. I try to distract him but he keeps going back to that page and then crying even harder. I'm worried that the sleep problems we are experiencing during the day are upsetting him so much he's developed a fear. Has anyone else's child has this reaction?

I'm worried that if I keep on with the naps I'm going to keep fuelling this fear/anxiety towards sleeping.

Does anyone have any thoughts?

[rinajack]

clareharley - how important is it to you where your lo sleeps? At around 18mo both of my children have ceased napping on their beds, and it moved to the lounge.  We watch some sort of childrens programme, I sit or lay with them on the lounge.  With me there, they actually sit or lay still, and will fall asleep if they are tired. If they do not fall asleep, that is the quietest time I can manage from them - if left to their own devices they never stop moving. Maybe taking the battle out of going to "bed" will make a big difference to you both.

It could also help if you talk about naps - explain that it doesn't mean you have to sleep all night etc...he could be a bit confused about you putting him to bed during the day iykwim. Maybe also it would help if you tell him he doesn't HAVE to sleep, but he does HAVE to have quiet time - then simply by getting him still, I am sure he will nap if he is tired.

My gut feel is he is OT, hence the 1 hr 15 nap, and the NW.

[skatty]

Clare, I agree with Rina about the bed thing, my DD has alweays slept in her pushchair outside undercover as do all the babies and kids in Denmark, it really helps seperate bedtime and nap issues. Have you posted on toddler sleep because I think what you are going through is very common and is more likely due to OT than giving up the nap. I know you have tried and earlier A time but that morning A time is very long, if my DD goes much over 5½ hours she will often skip her nap and act wired instead, hence the day care issues 

So sad he gets upset when the characters ion his book go to sleep, it does sound like it is distressing him but I really don't know what to suggest, my DD loves seeing them sleep and we have to pretend to whisper and say ssh, maybe you could try that?

[clareharley]

Thanks for your advice, Rinajack and Skatty. I have tried having him sleep elsewhere and on days when I have the car (my husband usually has it for work) I just put him in his car seat and drive him around. That's also become tricky, though, because he can get out of his car seat now so we usually just do it at weekends when there's two of us to deal with it. He won't sleep in his buggy and he won't sleep in the lounge, either. Even if he's sat with me reading or watching tv, he'll eventually just spring back up and want to do stuff. He won't lie down anywhere for more than a second and he's not the type to snuggle in and relax.
I'll try explaining more to him. We've always done, or attempted to do, this nap so I'm surprised he's never got used to it. I know the morning is long but it's absolutely impossible to get him to sleep much before 1pm. Whenever I've tried he's flatly refused so I've only had to try again later which means we have to go through it twice and spend too much of the day in distress.
He understands most of what I say to him now and I do explain, while we're getting ready for the nap, 'it's time for a little rest now' or 'it's time for just a little sleep' and tell him what we're going to do when he wakes up but maybe I'll try making more of a point of it.
Thanks again for your responses.