SUPPORT THREAD FOR TODDLERS SENSITIVE TO SLEEP

[Sima]

I have another plan.....
Lo is continually OT. 
Regardless of wake up, I'm going to put her down at 12 and then bedtime 5 hours later.  See where this takes us. 
How is everyone else doing? Any good news???

[LisaM]

Hi

Sima - that is pretty much what we are doing now - keeping to mainly set times.  So nap around 12ish and then bed about 6.30-7pm depending on nap.

Had a couple of bad days, yesterday awake 4.50 (had a bad nap day before) then screaming rage at nap time - resulting in an hours nap, then screaming rage at bedtime, resulting in wake up at 4am today!!!  Back to the really bad old days for a couple of days.  Todays nap only 1.15 - so god knows what we will get tonight - she is obviously really OT and I did put her down for an earlier nap and will go for early bedtime but I know it normally makes no difference.  I remember a long time ago I went to see a GP about her sleep and he said she wouldn't be able to keep up always waking early, nappng short naps etc and would sort itself out - of course that has never happened, she is like the duracell bunny!

Hope everyone else has had some better days/nights lately.

[Sima]

Hi Lisa,
Your lo sounds just like mine!  I am constantly trying to make sure is not OT, but she OT anyways no matter I do.  What seems to throw your lo to get OT.
Could you write her schedule for me?
My lo sleep patterns have changed since 18 months.  She used to sleep 1.15 -1.45 and now only 1 hour max, very rare 2.  If she sleeps 2 then she wakes up even earlier. 
So she short nap - 45 min naps- too???
How does your other lo sleep???

[LisaM]

Hi

My other lo sleeps much better mostly, although lately did start waking really early at about 5.15 for about 2 weeks which I presumed to be because she is so used to being woken by Grace calling out for me ( I try to leave her as long as possible when she wakes so early).  Anyway, thank goodness she seems to be back on track - she normally sleeps 11 hrs and has done for a long while now - at Grace's age she had 2 hour naps practically everyday and slept 11 hrs at night!  Bliss.

Anyway, Grace's schedule (if you can call it that) is roughly this:

Wake 5-5.30
Nap 12ish - last week did have a few 1.5 hr naps which is the best she does but would say that her average nap is an hour 20 mins.
Bed 6.45-7pm

Average night is 10 hrs sleep, occasionally has 10.5 or very rare occasions has slept 11 hrs.  Also does have 9-9.5 on a fairly regular basis!

Last night was asleep by 6.45 and woke at 4.45 today so the usual 10 hrs, is sleeping now so hopefully will have a good nap today as the last 3 days have all been rubbish.

She never seems tired, I don't think I have ever seen her yawn since she was a newborn baby, never rubs her eyes unless crying so going by cues is useless and also she will never ever admit to being tired, always says no and does not want to go for naps at all right now.  I am keeping on with them, even though its mostly a nightmare to get her to go because with the EW can't see her managing very well, after couple of days the OT will be dreadful.  She is very spirited so that doesn't help cos she is totally determined to get her own way over absolutely everything - its a constant battle with her.

She did used to be 30/45 min napper when younger but with the one nap does at least usually manage at least an hour.  Has always had less sleep than average for her age.  Problem is even if we put her to bed later does not always result in later wake up time and then she only gets 9-9.5 hrs sleep so I never know what to do for the best.  Try not to stress about it anymore (well not as much as I used to anyway) as it used to set the tone for my mood for the whole day and thats not productive.

HTH
Lisa x

[Sima]

Hi Lisa:
Thanks!  I do get stressed but I really do need to get out of this mind set because I am coming to accept that this is the way it goes and that is that.  Thanks for reminding me that-- I need that.
So lo are just the way they are because if your first one slept well and your second one sleeps less--that is that.  I thought I could "fix" her sleep but I realize I can't.  I tried everything.
Lisa, thanks for taking time to write!!!!
I can't tell with my lo when tired either---only OT.
Hugs to your and family, Siria

[jcsmom]

LisaM- our LOs sounds like 2 peas in a pod. My DS will never act tired, only OT, never admits to being tired, never makes up lost sleep in naps and nights and early naps mean early nights mean early wakes which mean short naps. I feel like I could lose it sometimes. Since deciding on going BTC my DS sleep has definitely decreased, but surprisingly has gotten more predictable. Funny huh?

He now sleeps 10.5-11 hours at night(the occasional 11.5 night)and 1.15-1.5 in the day. Not much sleep for a 21 month old but he seems to get by. I have logged sleep since pretty much birth. At 5 months he got 14 hours in 24 and was happy. I know some toddlers here get that much. At least with by the clock has given me some sense of routine.

Just wondering, other moms of sensitive sleeping bubs, did your LOs have 30-45 minute naps when they were younger? Mine did until around 8 months. First nap was sometimes longer than an hour but mostly 30-45 minute naps.

[abaker89]

Just wanted to check with you guys to see if you have any suggestions.  My 19 mth old has been refusing to nap for the last few weeks.  She goes into her crib at 5-5.5 hrs A time and then won't go to sleep.  She then crashes at around 7 hrs A time and sleeps an OT nap of 25 min.  Is there anything else I can do?  I tried staying with her till she fell asleep but that only worked once, tried rocking her to sleep but she wakes when I move her, tried wi/wo but no luck there either.  I just don't know what else to do!  I work part-time from home and I really need that time!  She is so OT now and it keeps getting worse!

Aileen

[mommy2mason]

Hello!

So great to see this thread! I'm glad I'm not the only who feels like they've been trying to get on a set routine for about 18 months now! I can totally relate to your posts and it will be nice to hear your experiences. My LO can have a few days of great sleep but then get totally out of whack for a few. I can do everything the same...but one day he'll nap for 3 hours and one day just 1.5 hours. Thankfully he's still a pretty good sleeper...just very unpredictable! Some days he'll fall right asleep while others he'll babble for almost an hour. I get so confused as to if he's OT or UT!

Amy

[LisaM]

Aileen

Sorry to hear you are having a tough time with naps.  How does your lo sleep at night?

I'm no expert having never managed to sort out my own lo's sleep problems but the only thing I can think of is maybe trying different A times, maybe she needs more or less than you are currently doing - have you already tried that?

Sima - yes I think its just some are better sleepers than others.  Same as me really, I'm not a great sleeper and if I do something different to my usual evening routine - like going out for the evening and get home and go to bed later then I really struggle to go off to sleep as I guess I am overtired and my brain can't switch off so I suppose poor Gracie has got that from me.  I also sometimes take forever to go back off to sleep if I wake in the night.  I also now have just accepted that that is the way Grace is and we just have to try to work around it the best we can.  Means I get less frustrated with her.

Still, doesn't hurt to dream, I still keep thinking well you never know, maybe once she starts school she will sleep til 7am - lol!!!!!!!!

[prana]

Hi guys,

I have never written on this subject but when I found it, all the posts sound like my LO. I have always had problem with my LO when it comes sleep. My husband and I have not gone out together in the evening since she has been born which was 14 months back as we just don't know what the evening and night will bring!!!! . As we speak, my husband trying to make her sleep. He went in at 7.30 and its 9pm!!!!! We have OT, UT, EW, NW, no independent sleep to go to sleep-the lots. Tried PU/PD at 7 months worked for few weeks, tried GW, WI/WO extending A times, shortening nap times- nope nothing. Just cannot get it right!!! last few days have started the dream feed again  as I think some of nw was hunger!!! Got 2 nights  from 11pm (bottle) to 5pm yepieee!!! Still got MASSIVE dark circles. I guess a year of sleepless nights does no good for your eyes and skin ( BTW YSL concelear works wonders-looks like I have slept for 13 hrs  )Ye right!!!

My entire life revolves around her sleep, naps....I am so glad to know that I am not the only one with this issue as all I hear from mums around me- is my LO sleps 7 to 7 everyday since they were 3 months!!!! 

Hope this New year brings lots and lots and lots of sleep for all of us....

[slushpuppy]

We never have 2 days the same either. I find it so hard to tell if he is OT or UT. I do all the things by the book; bath with dim lights and 1 or 2 toys, massage and dressed in his room (dim lights again), bottle, story (if possible, he usually tried to wriggle away).  it's soooo hard!

[Sima]

oh my goodness, after reading your all your posts--definitely is so good that we support one another.  It is so hard to have these sleep issues---frustrating and it helps to hear that others also go through similar things. 

Jcsmom-so glad to hear that btc has worked!!! I am so excited for you-that is huge!!!  I hope things going in that direction!

Abaker:  That one is a tough one!!!  This is just suggestion---have you tried leaving the room for a few minutes--5-10 min to see if she will settle down.  Have you tried going for nap at 5.25 and then seeing if she will settle herself down.  I know that with my lo if I would stay there she has a even harder time settling down...but all bubs are different.  A couple of days she was refusing to nap and at first she whined a bit..but has resigned to the fact that she is napping no matter what.   She is probably OT so after you rock her and put her down---have you tried waiting if she will fall back to sleep.  I have done that and sometimes it works.  Gives a little chance to settle themselves down.  When OT, they need more AP for sure...and then like my lo, gets used to it and wants it all the time. 

Prana and Slushpuppy!  So hard with little ones like this.  Same thing here--feel nutty telling myself--OT, UT, ...sick...goes on and on.  I feel cookoo many times.  One thing that helps me is keepign track in notebook to see if any pattern is developing.  Just in case

[Sima]

Hi Everyone!
I discovered something that not sure if could help anyone.  Anyways, all this time thought my lo was OT...I have been really trying to keep track of her sleep-wake up etc.  I thought that she could only do 5.5-6 max.  Turned out that the reason why she only napped 1 hour is because she is Undertired!  I have put her down 6.15-6.5 and she has slept 1.45 two days in a row!! And therefore bedtime is later.  And then I put her down before 5.5.  What a difference it has made!!!!  Since August she has napped 1 hour because not tired enough and kept putting her to bed early.  I am so excited about this because now I know that she can do more A time in morning with no problem!!!!!! I had stuck in my head that she could not do more than 6 hour.

Her schedule now is:
Wake up 6
Nap 12.15-2
Bedtime: 7.15-7.30!!!
No complaints at all!!!!


So if your little one is take 1 hour naps & happy, could be that your lo is UT, not OT!!!!

[abaker89]

Thanks for the advice, we are still in 25 min nap land here.

Lisa-Her nights are great, maybe too great. We had been getting 12.5 hrs, now it is less, close to 12.  I have been thinking that is too much and it is why she won't nap.

Sima-I have tried leaving and it does nothing.  She doesn't cry, just whines and talks so a few days I have just left her.  She will do this for 1.5 hrs and at some point crashes (usually around 6.5-7 hrs A time) and then has an OT 25 min nap.  So I guess I know that 6.5 hrs is too long. 

Today she was asleep at 6 hrs and that resulted in an OT nap.  Also to get her to sleep, I have to stay in there and hold my hand on her arm.  No idea why that works but it is pretty quick so far.  I just worry that she will not nap independently.  I am thinking I should still just try earlier.  Before all this started, she was quite happy with a 5 hr A time.  She was napping for 75 min and 12.5 at night, all was good here.  I guess most would say that 75 is OT or UT but no other A time seems to get me a longer nap.

Aileen

[jcsmom]

Sima, yay! I am so glad this is working for you. If you find that her naps get shorter at some point with such a long A time, scale back a bit, but otherwise, that is fab!

Aileen, I tried every A time in the book and finally found 5.5 is our magic number, unless he has had a short night and then I go with 5-5.25. This give us our best nap and night. When OT my DS does 37-45 min naps, never 25, poor you! Can you just start over and get her sleeping independently again for naps and try a shorter A time? Could you shorten her night a bit in case she needs less sleep overall?Could she just need 6 hours A instead of less? Perhaps when she goes into her crib she is actually UT and when she finally crashes she is OT? This happened to us when I was doing 5 hours or less A, he just took a major jump in A time all of the sudden and was able to handle more than I thought. I am just thinking of all the possible scenarios for you!

On Christmas day I let my DS stay up until 10pm! Crazy huh? We were at my FIL's and there were over 20 people there and I knew putting him down would be near impossible. So I put on a dvd at bedtime and he curled up and watched it for over an hour. Then when we left, he slept in the car and woke when we got home but went down easily at 10pm. He did wake at 6:30 am his normal time and was a wee bit cranky yesterday but last night he slept for 12.5 hours, a total first for him! It was so freeing to not worry about his routine for once and he paid me back with a nice long night.