problems with naps/ew.help please :(

[miasmum79]

hi, i am a relatively new 2 this site and am in need of advice. i have posted on another forum, but the problem is now apparent 2 me.......its sleep. so cud use fresh outlook on this. hope this is ok. my 14wkers naps became erratic since abt 4wks now. i then found bw and fell in love with the concept. my girl is ff every 3hrs. she does not take a paci and is in a sleeping bag or half swaddle. she sleeps independently in her crib. the issues 1) naps of 20-45min. am trying pressure on jolts without success. have wind down/dark room etc. this leaves me with a v cranky baby. i follow her cues re sleep and she settles promptly. i also make sure she dosent stay awake more than 90mins. 2) night wakings 3) EW. bath/ massage/bottle/bed at 7pm. then usually wakes 1030pm, 2-3am for feed. she will then wake at 0500-0530 and will not settle. i have occ tried a 2oz feed, but she will still wake in 45mins-1hr. i dont mind the nw at all. the ew means i cant get her on EASY. i dont know what to tackle first. she is sleepless and so am i. i am at my wits end regarding this. i feel so sad that i cant get my own child to sleep!!! please help me. thanks in advance.

[Purplecattypants]

Hi there 

I am going to move this to Naps as I think this is were your primary problem lies. LO is probably nw/ew due to OT from short naps. You should get the help you need there 

[miasmum79]

hi sorry abt that.
A 0530 shushed/ patted
E 0700
A till 0800
S 0800-0845
A till next feed at 1000
E 1000
A till 1030
S 1030-1115
A till sleepy cues
S 1200-1235
A till next feed
E 1300
A 1300-sleep
S 1400-1440
A till next feed
E 1600
A till 1640
S 1645-1800, when i woke her
A bath massage
E 1900
S till 2230 (she is not good with df, but wakes most nights bt10-11pm)
E 2230
S till 0230
E bt 0230-0300 most nights
 and then wakes around 0500-0600

this is a sample but most of our days r like this. i am struggling to extend her naps. hope this sheds some light on my situation.
thanx again

[miasmum79]

hi, just to add that i have tried taking her for a nap earlier than the times above ie before her sleepy cues, and this usually ends in her crying and becoming miserable, inspite of wind downs.

[miasmum79]

hi, pls cud someone have a look at my posts, and give me some.....any advice. her nw are now worse........she woke 1130pm, 0130, 0400, and finally at 0550 last night!!!!

[deckchariot]

{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}  I'm so sorry you're having such a hard time. 

In looking at your EASY (thanks for posting that!) it looks like she has her EW at 5:30 and you try to get her back to sleep - does she?  I suspect she doesn't (given what you said in your first post), but then her first nap isn't til 8:00 - which would be 2.5 hrs after she woke.  Then if she wakes at 8:45 and goes down for her next nap at 10:30, that's 1 hr 45 min which might be an ok A time, if she were well rested, but after a 45 min nap, she's not well rested.  So I suspect she is in an OT cycle and that's why she isn't napping or sttn.

Here's a couple of links to take a look at:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64158.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=128419.0

A couple of things to note too - often, babies have their shortest A time first thing in the morning, so if you're aiming for 1.5 hrs of A time, that first one might still be closer to 1 hr.  And if she doesn't nap well, she won't be able to handle a "typical" amount of  A time after a short nap.  The average A times are what bubs can typically handle if they've slept well prior to having that A time.  Shorter nap means shorter A time.

YAY for you in doing a swaddle, a winddown and shh/pat - keep doing all those things - they do help (even when it seems like they are not).  I would shorten her A time - especially in the am.  For a few days, you may just have to "start" your day with that EW - if you cannot extend her with shh/pat (and I'd try for maybe only 20 min).  Get her up, low key activity, then feed when hungry and try to have her back down no later than 1.5 hrs of A time (and you may want to go even less).  Then remember to count her A time from when she wakes, and shorten it accordingly if her nap is short. 

[miasmum79]

thanks for your input. i am trying my hardest with her naps, but she is not easy!!!!! few queries...

out of desperation to get her to nap, i put her in our bed a few days ago for her daytime naps and placed my hand on her throughout (i wud normally go in at 25mins with her in her crib, and then to the pressure during jolts without much success). it worked for 2 out of 3 naps and she slept for 1.5 hr each. am i setting a bad precedent here?? its just trying to get her out of the OT cycle.

also she has started this new thing over the past few days, where she wud want to nap around 1630-1730. this nap she sleeps through by herself eg today she went down at 1715, and it is around 2000 now and she is still asleep. she normally has a massage/ bath thing at bedtime. i have in the past woken her up for this. but i am wondering if i should let her sleep it thro or shud i wake her up for her bedtime routine? she is usually due a feed at around 1900-1930, do i do this like a df?
thanks again for taking the time. 

[lilac83]

Holding her through the jolts is fine, this shouldn't become a prop. After a few naps/days of doing this though, see if she has learned to get through them on her own. A little AP is fine to get them out of an OT cycle.

I think when she fell asleep at 5:15 and is still sleeping at 8:00 that she has entered her night sleep phase. In the future, you'll want to wake her from that nap as it's only supposed to be a 30-45min catnap to get her through til bedtime. I hope the night worked out for you all right.

[miasmum79]

hi lilac83....the night actually was good. i think the early bedtime may have helped. she woke at 1130pm, and then at 0500, had small feed, and woke again at 0700. she did stir on and off from 0230, but managed to get herself back to sleep. so really happy with that. however today she has napped really badly. only 3 45min naps, and a lot of crying.......will see what the night holds?? thanx again. will keep u posted.

[miasmum79]

hi, i spoke too soon the naps seem to be getting better. for 2 days now she has managed one 11/2 hr nap in the day without any help (the rest of the naps are still 45mins with or without my intervention). however the nw/ew seems to have worsened. she has her bedtime routine and is in bed by 7pm (am trying for this to be sooner, but she has a nap at abt 0430-0445 pm and will wake at abt 0530pm), then wakes 2215pm, 0100, 0230. she then wakes around 0400, again at 0500, and finally for the morning at 0600-0700. she gets herself back to sleep, but will moan and whimper between times. i tend to feed her for the 10pm, 0200am and at 0500am (this being a small feed). she is not terribly hungry at night, and will feed only abt 3oz tops. i am not sure what to do now. her weight gain is not brilliant, so am keen to get some feeds at night. i am so sleep deprived, and tired......this has now been going on for months!!!! again a few questions....
also are her short naps due to ot/ut. the A times after short naps.......should i shorten them or lenghten them?
when she wakes at 45mins, she is ususally crying and upset. i leave it a few mins to see if she settles, and uasually requires me to go in to her, and shh/ pat. i have very rarely been successfull at this. she will get upset, but usually is happier once i get her out of the room. how long should i try to resettle her after these naps?
sorry if this was too long. please tell me what else i can try.......thanx again.

[lilac83]

Hi ~

Sorry to hear things aren't really improving. If you could post what the last day or so has looked like that will help me figure out what those 45min naps might mean. The feeding at night may be starting to become a prop. She's the prime age right now to develop prop issues. It's not uncommon for a 4 month old to still need to eat 2-3 times at night though. Is she formula or breast fed?

I would try resettling for about 20min. If she hasn't resettled by that time get her up and have some low key A time. Remember, the time you spent resettling will count as A time too. Keep the following A time shorter than normal.