can a high sleep needs baby become a low sleep needs baby?

[lilflav]

Hello all, I hope everyone had a happy holidays! My lo, who was 5 weeks early, slept all day and all night (seriously, just woke ate then slept) until about 3 months, and was still slightly higher on the sleep needs scale at 4 months.  Then because of ap & whatever else was causing it she started taking shorter & shorter naps & waking more in the night.  We were eventually down to all 30 min naps until about 3 weeks ago, and on & off nw (started to see improvement at 8 months). 

So now she is 10.5 months old and here is where we are at now.  She is getting a good 1.25-1.5 hr nap in the am & still a 30 min nap in the eve.  I am having trouble getting her down for the evening nap and have ot been able to extend it (which I guess is ok because she'll be going through the transition soon).  I try putting her in her crib & she will try to settle herself (or sometimes play) until she calls for me, I end up getting her really drowsy, putting her in the crib & patting her off to sleep (she goes down 100% awake for the other two sleeps).  I have tried 2.75-4hr a time, she won't settle herself to sleep.  She also wakes in the morning between 4:30-6:30.  She will go back to sleep, but sometimes it can take a while.  I was feeding her at this time, but have just weaned that feed.  Anyway, I was thinking last night that her night sleeps usually total to ~11hrs. This puts her sleep for the day at ~13 hr.  I've been trying to get her to sleep more, but am thinking maybe she just doesn't need that much sleep, but I always thought their sleep needs remained constant, so I am not sure.  Maybe from getting so little sleep for so many months has decreased her sleep needs?  So I was thinking of changing her nights from 8-8 to 8-7 and hopefully she'll sleep through.  If she can do 9-10 hrs straight surely she can do 11, right?  What do you think?  I am also trying to figure out what her schedule  would look like (also adding in a lunch and moving the 6am bf to later), and am unsure if she could do the long A times.


7- Wake
7:15- BF
8:45-solids
10:30-nap
12-Wake & bf
12:30/1-lunch
3:30-bf/bottle
4:30?-nap
5-dinner
7:30-bf
8-bed

In the am she can settle at 3hr15 min, but I think she could handle a longer a time than that, maybe up to 4 hrs.  Right now we have a short evening a time, only 2.5 hrs, but she is very tired then & falls right to sleep.  Sometimes I think a 13 hr day may just be too much for her.  It's like she needs a 11 hr night & a 12 hr day.  Any insight would be appreciated, thanks!

[elmarie]

A time at her age should be around 3-4h.  She should be getting about 11-12h sleep at night and 2 naps of 1.5h each.  I think it may be that the 2nd A time is too long so maybe try bringing it forward to around 3-3.30pm.  With the 30min nap in the pm she is probably OT come bedtime which can cause them to not settle and have NW.  Maybe also try bring bedtime forward to about 7pm if she is waking at 7am   

[debo620]

so definately your daughter may only need 12.5-13hrs in a 24hrs period, my first son was like that...a 12hr night plus 3hrs of day sleep may just not be realistic.

personally I think she is probably starting the transition to one nap, and thats why she is fighting the pm nap.

I would consider this:
wake 7
nap 10:30-11:30---1hr max
nap 3-4:30
bed 7:30

[lilflav]

Elmarie-she is waking at 4:30-5:30 every morning and sometimes goes back down easily, sometimes her eyes are wide open and it can take a while.  I can stretch her night to last from 8-8, but we get that long nw and she sleeps 11 hrs anyway.  I was thinking maybe if I shorten her night she will consolidate her sleep.  I have also tried a shorter second a time of 2.75 hr, she still won't settle on her own.  I wish I could lengthen the second nap, but it is just not happening.  Something I did not mention is she gets 30 min naps whether ot or ut.  I was thinking maybe she was ut because she just plays. 

Deboorah- Thanks, the past two days her night was 8-7:15 (with one waking), so maybe that is where she will settle.  I will try that schedule to see if I can get a longer pm nap.  I think she does need 2 naps of 1+ hrs.  I noticed the schedule you posted is 14 hours long though. 

Thanks for the input, I will try for a while and see what happens.

[debo620]

yah, ypu will just have to play with it a bit, like maybe bed for 7:30ish but she wont actually be asleep til closer til 8...
if you find that the pm nap is not happening at 3pm---then you can cut the am nap to 45min etc.

[lilflav]

Hello, I just wanted to give an update.  We have had some improvement, but there is more tweaking that needs to be done.  I have gotten a few longer pm naps finally, along with the longer am naps.  Although she has begun waking during them, but usually I have been able to extend them.  Not bad after going from about 6 months until 10 months with having 99% of naps 30 min.  I am still getting a wakeup at ~5:50-6:15.  I have mostly been able to settle, but she is not in a deep sleep & it can be very hard to settle.  She is definately not sleeping long enough, because when I pick her up her eyes usually close right away.  When she has slept long enough she wakes & plays, not cries.  Or maybe she is just crying because it is dark?  I have been putting her down for her am nap at 10:30, but think now with the shorter nights she is getting tired earlier, so I am going to try 10:15  (& poss. work earlier) instead.  This nap has been lasting until about 11:40-11:50.  I just can't find it in me to wake her at the 1 hr mark yet (plus she is already so cranky after waking), so she gets about 1hr 10-20 min.  She is not resisting any naps or bedtime.  The longer a time is definately what she needed for her afternoon nap.  Right now she is going 4-4hr15 min, and again is getting 1hr10min -1.5 hrs. Then 2.5-3 hrs before bed, depending on how long her nap was.

So her day  looks like this:

~7- wake  (sometimes earlier, usually is in light sleep from ~6 on)
10:30 Nap (will try 10:15- she's been fussy going down)
11:40/50- wake
~4-nap
5:20/30-wake
7:50/8-asleep  (I am going to try a 7:30 bedtime, to see what happens.  And will probably have to if her am nap moves up)



I know lots of people would love a 6am wake up (have been reading through ew posts), but I am not a morning person & would love to push it up 1 hr.  I really want to try tweaking her day to see what I can get before settling that is just what she will do.  I thought about w2s, but it isn't at the same exact time everyday.  Any other ideas?  I will post back when I have more news. BTW- she will be 11 months on the 5th!  Thanks!

[debo620]

so looks as though she is getting about 10hrs over night and 3hrs during the day...so my only thought is that if you want to have a slightly later wake-up, you may need to cut the am nap since that is the extension of night sleep....

but that can be easier said then done, in reality you may be able to get a longer night by cutting the am nap and moveing bedtime earlier so that she is sleeping 7pm-6am, and then work out a 2-2.5hr day sleep routine...
and then try to shift her day later 15min at a time if that makes sense.

[lilflav]

Well, she is not getting 2X 1.5 hr naps.  I would say her average is about 2.5 hrs total of naps now.  Yeah, cutting the am nap is the next trick on the agenda.  It's just hard to do, kwim?  I get nervous because we had 30 min naps for so long, so I don't want her to go back to that.  But that makes sense about shifting the day.  I might have to try to do that after figuring out her routine.  Worse comes to worse, come April (or whenever dlight savings is) she will then be sleeping until 7!  Thanks for your input.