Problems getting to sleep

[jledhead]

I don't know why it took me so long to find this forum, but thanks.

Our problem is our son will not soothe himself to sleep.  He is now 5 months old and once asleep is fine.  he is still napping 3-4 times a day and sleeps around 9-10 hours a night with only the occasional wake needing paci.  we are still swaddling at night and have for the last month not swaddled for naps during the day.  his arms aren't as crazy as they used to be but they still keep him from soothing him self, he starts rubbing his eyes and just gets more and more anxious.  We have to rock him to sleep for naps and my wife gets him to calm himself down for nighttime.  this usually doesn't work for me though and I generally always have to rock him.  he is also starting to roll over so thats why we were trying to ease out of swaddling.

We are getting exhausted rocking him and he is requiring more and more rocking as time goes on.  he is not super crazy about a paci so it doesn't always work to calm him down.  if we just leave him while calm he screams bloody murder, we are new parents so it sure sounds like bloody murder, and we don't think thats very heathly and it seems beyond CIO.  I would appreciate opinions on what we can try to get him to soothe himself and help pointing us in the right direction. 

[jana224]

Hi and welcome to the forum!  You've come to the right place; there are a lot of caring people on here with experience to help you out.  I myself am new too, but have a baby close in age to yours.

Are you following EASY?  If you are, posting your daily routine and the length of his naps will make it easier to see if something can be adjusted or tweaked to make your LOs naps/going to bed easier.

Since rocking to sleep can become a prop, you're right to want to teach him how to self soothe.   How long are your Awake/activity times?  Depending on the length of the naps, maybe overtired or undertired?  (Isn't is great how one symptom can have two polar opposite causes?)

Anyway - looking forward to your next post!
Jana

[jledhead]

we are still on a 3 hour schedule.  Its not super strict though and we let it range from 2.5 hours to 3.5 hours.  its eat play sleep.  after he eats we usually plan for 1.5-2 hours of wake time but we let him give some cues, like if he is rubbing is eyes and getting cranky, then its time for nap time.  in the morning naps usually last 30mins to an hours, and later in the day they seem to be more 1-2 hours.  and when he wakes up we try and push it as long as we can but again we feed when he starts getting cranky.  we have recently started solid foods on the last feeding.  we also don't get up at a specific time, its always between 7 and 8 in the morning though.

we really think he needs to be pushing to a 4 hours schedule but how do we avoid feeding him when he is obviously getting cranky for food.  oh, and he is eating 5-7 oz of formula every feeding.

if I can provide any more info just ask.  thanks for your help.

[jana224]

Well Tracy does suggest moving to a 4 hour schedule at four months -- some babies adjust better than others of course.

My personal experience has been that the closer I follow a consistent EASY, the easier it is to do everything.  I don't mean that I clock watch strictly, but I do follow both the clock combined with my DD's cues.  That way when she starts getting cranky, I know for sure why.  When he starts getting cranky and you feed him, are you sure he isn't tired?  A short 30 minute nap in the morning, especially if he's still a bit cranky, can be a symptom of OT.

As you transition into a 4 hour EASY, in a perfect world he'd have 2 hours awake (including eating, diapering, etc.) and 2 hours asleep.

When in your routine are you trying to put him down for his naps or to bed?  After the first yawn or eye rubbing?  Before?  What's your routine just before sleep like?  How much wind down time are you giving?

One thing I like about watching the clock to loosely plan our routine is that I can anticipate when the next nap will be coming, then get my DD ready 20 minutes before that...  So by the time she's ready for her nap, she's already in bed and wound down. 

How many bottles a day is he getting?  I'm wondering if you can increase the formula to 7-8 oz (if he'll take it), that might help him hold off to a 4 hour EASY?  Does he get solids at the same time as his bottle?  My DD is breastfed but drinks 4 times a day (every four hours) but I don't give solids at the same time.  I give her a feeding of milk and then an hour later her solids -- this works at our house to tank her up before her nap.

my post is a bit all over the place, but I want to try to address all the things you've talked about...

Since your LO is sleeping 9-10 hours at night, you already know that he has some capacity for self-soothing because when his short sleep cycle ends, he probably stirs a bit in the night and manages to get back to sleep on his own a lot... so hopefully you can use this good foundation to help teach him how to do it before a nap or before bedtime.  If you put him down in his crib (?) a bit before he shows any signs of tiredness, what does he do?

Lastly -- if you try everything and nothing works, he is old enough for the sleep training method of pick up/put down.  Do you have Tracy's book Solves Your Problems?  She goes into great detail about how to do it, but there is also great info on this site!  I haven't had to use that strategy too much, but from what I hear, if you do use it, pick a weekend or time when you're both home and don't have much going on because you'll need your sleep if he really puts up a fight!

Jana

[jledhead]

ok, so we have started trying to address some of what you said.  I believe you are right and the 2.5 hour mark when he gets fussy, he is probably more tired than hungry.  The past 2 days we have started trying to put him back down instead of feeding and its working so far.  We have been able to extend his eating time to 3.5 - 4 hours without much trouble.  I think the book we read was baby wise and this is my first introduction to this forum and its thinking.  its not that dissimilar though and we have/are trying to split the time, so now its 2 hours up and 2 down, e.a.s.y. 

our routine for going to bed is time based a cue based.  if he just ate and starts rubbing his eyes we don't want him to sleep right way and try and redirect.  if he has been up for at least an hour and starts rubbing his eyes or any other cues we take him to bed.  our wind down time is usually 10 minutes or so, depending on how fussy and tired he is.

With increasing his time to closer to 4 hours he is eating more (so far).  more like 7-8 oz and today it was 4 bottles.  we also gave him oatmeal in the midmorning feeding and the last feeding.  we do give our milk and solids at the same sitting for convenience.  but that is an idea to give it an hour after feeding.

I think I need to get Traceys book

we have been trying pat/shush just from what we have read here and so far its working.  at least we aren't rocking him to sleep.  We have kind of regressed with the swaddling and now do it just about every nap and nighttime since his hands go straight to his face and gets him all riled up, slapping and rubbing his eyes.  Maybe after he can calm himself better we can try and move back away from swaddling.

Thanks for your advice so far and I appreciate anything else that can be offered.

[jana224]

Oh - I'm so glad you are experiencing some successes!  I will post more tomorrow as I'm all partied out from a family get together tonight, but I did want to say to keep going with the swaddling if you feel it is helping him stay asleep.  Some people swaddle until their babies are 7-8 months+.  If you like the swaddle, but find he gets out too easy, maybe just get a bigger receiving blanket/swaddler to wrap around him a bit better and be more wiggle-proof.  I don't think there's any problem with long term swaddling; some cultures do it for a long long time and it is an ancient method of baby calming. 

Jana