What happens after shush-pat???

[EliFergus]

Hi,

Am at a crossroads at the moment - cant find my copy of 'The BW solves all your problems' and need some urgent help!! 

We have been using the shush-pat approach with Elliott (now 20 weeks old) since he was around 5/6 weeks. This works great and we are now at the point where we just need to go in and give a few pats when he is unsettled and he drops back off to sleep again (we dont always use the 'shush' part, but he seems fine with this). As Elliott has bad wind problems (of the legs raised, arched back type), we pretty much have to check every wail and whimper to make sure that he is not in pain as opposed to him just stirring. Whenever we check, we do the patting....but I now dont know if we should be stopping this to allow him to settle by himself (in which case, how to get around the wind issue??) or do we continue to shush-pat until he no longer needs this support from us?? If we have to keep doing the shush-patting, will this become a prop that he depends on and/or becomes used to to help him drop off?? As mentioned, sometimes it just takes a few reassuring pats before he drops off again....

Also, we are using the gentle removal method for his paci/dummy as was finding that along with the wind issue we were spending our evenings taking it in turns to re-plug him! Seems to be working so far and now at the point where we can go into him after he has woken up and can get away with just shush-patting without having to do the removal method (we have only been doing it for a few days). Has anyone else had any experience/success of this approach with weaning off the paci/dummy???

As always, thanks in advance,
Dx

PS: Now off to sort through OHs office for my book!!

[EliFergus]

Also forgot to add - Elliott has started waking early in the last few weeks. This is where shush-pat doesn't really work as he is wide awake and keen to start the day! This is usually around 5am which is too early, so we have sometimes brought him to our bed or rocked/bounced him back to sleep (I feel really bad for all of these as it seems as if we are un-doing all the effort we put in earlier... ....also worried that he will start to expect this??). Should I keep with the shush-pat at this time or move onto PU/PD and is it okay to use both at the same time. I.e, shush-pat in the early-late evening and PU/PD for middle of the night and early morning?

For the early morning wakings, we can shush-pat for 30-40mins several times and he will still wake up after 10mins or so sleep! He usually has a feed at around 3-4am..though hoping to drop this soon.....

Thanks again,

Dx

[anna*]

Can't help with the GW, as we went cold turkey! With the shh-pat, I think you have to give Elliot the chance to settle himself. If he's uncomfortable/in pain, he will certainly let you know about it! I would try to hold back on running in and the first 'wail and whimper', and see what happens. Let him cry for (say) 30 seconds, and see what happens. Listen carefully. He may be 'mantra' crying, and get himself back to sleep. My rule of thumb was, if I'm not sure whether my LO needed me, I could wait a while longer and see what happens. When he really needed me, there was no doubt from the tone of his cry! For me, the main thing to listen out for with my LOs mantra cry is that it didn't escalate. When he truly needs me, he gets louder and louder and angrier and angrier!

IMO, it's well worth giving him the chance to settle himself. In the BW books, especially once your LO has reached this age, we only comfort/help settle them as much as they need and no more. If you rush in to shh-pat whenever he stirs, you will certainly make a prop of patting - learning to settle himself back to sleep is one of the most important skills little Elliot can learn.

With regard to the early wakings, it could indicate that your routine needs a tweak, can you post it in EASY format? It is fine to use shh-pat and PUPD as needed... start out with shh-pat and resort to PUPD if it is not helping LO to settle.

HTH

anna
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[EliFergus]

Hi Anna,

Thanks for the response and tips. Have been thinking that the shush-pat as we have been using it was slowly turning into a prop!!

Have just had an opportunity to 'wait and see' as Elliott just had a stirring....he pretty much escalated within 2 minutes! Could it be that he is so used to us coming in that he doesn't have the patience or knowledge of how to settle himself??? Funnily enough, when he was a few weeks old, I used to wait and see when I heard a whimper and more often than not he settled himself...however, with the onset of the wind problems we have probably fallen into an accidental parenting mode of checking and reassuring him every time he calls out...

Do you think I should wait until we have the paci issue sorted before leaving him? And also, how long is too long when it comes to leaving him...? In the end, just now, waited for 5 mins (was counting in my head) before going in to him, but feel that this would be verging on the controlled crying/cry it out methods, esp as he gets loud pretty quickly each and every time..... He doesn't tend to settle within 30 seconds....would this mean that we should be settling him???

Just had a thought - would a mobile be too late to introduce now? As he is 4.5 months old, am wondering what else we can do to help him settle and know that some friends use this at the outset of settling their babies down and them seem to sleep great...or will this also become a prop sometime down the line??? Am so confused and pretty desperate (sp)!! We seem to spend every evening taking it in turns to go up and check and settle and even if it is a quick turnaround it does sort of break the evening up and I can never settle down and relax.... 

Thanks again,
Dx

[anna*]

If the crying is escalating I would definitely go in to him, don't leave it to escalate more and more. That's OK if he needs you to settle, he just needs to have the chance before you go in, and he needs to have that chance every time he wakes, from now on! Make sure you wait until he is 'really' crying before you go in - use shh-pat or PUPD to settle him - just as much as he needs to be calm, no more - then leave the room again. The next time he cries, again, make sure he really needs you before you go in. Don't stress about what has happened this evening. It might take some time before Elliot starts settling himself, but you've done brilliant work in teaching him to get himself to sleep, now you just need to step back from the shh-pat a little bit   

Does he have a lovey? If not, that might be a really great thing to introduce (remember to get at least 3 and use them in rotation!). The other thing that helped us was a white noise CD of household sounds, we found a particular track ('TumbleDrier' ) that soothed Stanley and put it on a loop. After a while, we were able to turn the volume down and down, and now he only uses it when the neighbours are doing DIY during nap times!

anna
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[EliFergus]

Thanks Anna - thats been really, really helpful 

Think I had been overdoing the shush-pat as had been still following the advice as per the book to keep patting for x minutes (always aimed for 5-6!), which is probably overkill, esp as he can settle down with just a few pats. You're right, I do need to step back and let him whinge a bit and settle. I tend to hover around and if after the 5-6 minutes of patting he makes a sudden stir, I jump back in again! Will certainly do things differently now and will also continue with reducing dummy use as it had been getting to be a pain to replug.... I am okay with things taking a while, just keen for things to get sorted before we move Elliott into his own room in Feburary when he will be about 6 months, so the countdown is on! Know its a wild guess, but am hoping that 6 or so weeks should see some improvements if we make a proper start now???

No - he doesn't have a lovey as yet as had been worried that he would get something stuck on his face in the night and not be able to remove it! I have thought about it though....think I've seen a post/sticky on here about introducing a lovey so will have a dig around for that.....

Good tip about the white noise. We have a baby mobile thing that plays a heartbeat noise (as well as rain, lullaby and ocean noises) and its been a bit hit and miss when we use it for daytime naps. We have tried it at night and during early waking and it just seems to make him more chatty! Maybe we need proper white noise as mentioned and not something so pronounced??? Will give it a go and look on the internet for where I can buy a CD and load onto ipod......

Thanks again!
Dx

[anna*]

I'd definitely recommend a lovey. At this age I don't think there's much danger of them getting in trouble with a lovey, of course as long as it is sold as suitable for under 1s.

My tips (based on our experience)

* get something that you can launder it regularly and put on a hot wash if something bad happens (ie if LO gets sick on it, which is bound to happen at some point) - this usually means something made of cotton, not wool.
* Get at least 3 of the same thing. We have three and I'm getting another. We keep one at childcare and two at home. Stan has a stuffed cotton rabbit (which we introduced at 4.5months when we weaned the dummy) and he sucks on the arm or leg when he needs to soothe himself and it gets pretty stinky pretty quickly - especially if we're going through a bad patch of sleep!
* Don't save one from being used entirely! If two are getting loads of use and get to be really worn and have a familiar texture/smell, a 'brand new' one might well be rejected!
* Sleep with the first lovey in bed with you for a night, and then the next day tuck it between Elliot and you at feed times (as well as putting it in Elliot's hands at nap time), so that it gets associated with milk and comfort and mummy-cuddles

I'd say you can definitely expect to see an improvement in a couple of weeks if you make a good start now. Don't know where in the world you are, but if you're in the UK I can recommend the Baby Sleep Sounds CD - a mobile with sound/light/movement might be a bit too stimulating, but we definitely had good results with the white noise in a nice dark bedroom.

Let us know how you get along!

anna
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[EliFergus]

Hi Anna,

Yep, we are in the UK!! Just tried to google 'baby sleep sounds CD' and nothing exact comes up?

Also thanks for the tips re. introducing a lovey - am off to Mothercare tomorrow to get them!! 

Thank you!!

Dx

[anna*]

My mistake, it's called the Little Sleepyhead CD.

anna
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[EliFergus]

Hi Anna,

Well, CD has finally arrived so hoping that it works! Elliott has responded well in the past to a mobile machine we have that played heartbeat sounds as well ad rain, waves etc......Only thing is, I didn't really actively keep up with using the machine every time and so it doesn't seem to work! Oh dear.....Am planning on being more diligent this time round and know that it may not work first time round and not expecting it to totally conk him out in 5 secs flat (ahhh, if only!)!

Quick question re the white noise - should I aim to start using this at naptimes and then build up to bedtime? Or is this not important? Also, should I look to keep the CD playing the whole duration of the nap (if so, would this need to be on during nightime? would i keep it on during night feeds etc)?? Also, will the dummy (having to pop it in every so many minutes etc) interfere with the effects of the CD (i.e. will he still keep waking up due to lost dummy regardless of white noise or does the white noise distract?)? Can imagine that every baby is different and so will have a different response to white noise but now seriously considering if we need to ditch the dummy asap!!!

Thanks again,
Dx

[anna*]

Quick question re the white noise - should I aim to start using this at naptimes and then build up to bedtime? Or is this not important? Also, should I look to keep the CD playing the whole duration of the nap (if so, would this need to be on during nightime? would i keep it on during night feeds etc)??

In the beginning, we kept it on for all sleeps. Actually what we did was, find a track that worked well for Stanley, and put it on an ipod (with speakers, obv.) and looped that track, so just the Tumble Drier track (not the whole CD) would play the whole time. At the beginning, we kept it running all through the night too, including feeds. Once he was sleeping a bit more consistently, we started turning it down at night for a few nights, then turned it off. I hope it helps Elliot. I know that I nap really well in Stan's room when the white noise is on 

Also, will the dummy (having to pop it in every so many minutes etc) interfere with the effects of the CD (i.e. will he still keep waking up due to lost dummy regardless of white noise or does the white noise distract?)? Can imagine that every baby is different and so will have a different response to white noise but now seriously considering if we need to ditch the dummy asap!!!

Oh dear, if you're having to replug the dummy frequently, it sounds like it may have become a prop. I guess all you can do is see what happens with the white noise and the dummy, but don't be surprised if you find you need to wean it.

Good luck, keep us posted how things go. 

anna
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