short naps

[~Alexa~]

My lo is 16 weeks old, and has been on EASY since he was 2 months.  He has been sleeping short naps since then.  I thought he was napping 45 min, because after 45 min he would cry, so I thought he was UT so I tried extending his A times.  This weekend I got a video monitor and I've found out that my lo is napping 35 min, but he is silent until 45 min and then he cries.  I've tried reducing his A times, but it's not working.
Another problem is that I feed him every 4 hours because at 3.5 hours he would drink only 2 or 2.5 oz.

Yesterday's routine went like this:

7:50 a.m - Wake up (He usually wakes up around 7, but I think he was tired from the day before because he had a later bedtime)
E. 8:00 a.m - 3 oz
A. swing 8:30 - 9:35
S. 9:35 - 10:10 (He woke up at this time but cried at 10:20.  I could put him back to sleep at 10:20 but he woke up after 15 min.)
A. 10:45
E. 11:15 a.m - 5 oz
No A time. I put him to bed after E because he was tired.
S. 11:30a.m (I saw in the monitor that he woke up at 12, he was awake for 20 min and went back to sleep, he woke up again after 20 min and went back to sleep for other 50 min. All of this by himself) He woke up at 1:30 but cried at 1:45 p.m.

A. We went to the dry cleaners and he spent time in his swing.  He was really fussy after we came back.  I didn't think he was tired because 15 min had passed since he woke up.
E. 2:50 p.m - 6 oz
A. He watched his mobile for 5 min.
S. 3:15 pm - 4:00 p.m (Only 45 min!!!! I tried to put him back to sleep but I couldnīt)
A. Sing songs
S. 5:00 p.m. He woke up crying at 5:15, I put him back to sleep with shshpat and he woke up again at 6 p.m
A. Bath and lullabies

E. 6:45 p.m - 7 oz
S. 7:10 p.m

E. 2 a.m - 7 oz
S. 2:20 a.m.(There is no DF, I've been thinking of introducing it, but I don't want to mess up the nights. Should I try it?)

Nights are not bad because he only wakes once to eat and goes back to sleep.

Today he woke up at 7:15 a.m., I fed him at 7:30 a.m. (3 oz) and I put him to sleep at 8:45 a.m and he slept only 35 min.

I will really appreciate all the advice you can give me!!! I need some time for myself too, but he wonīt nap more than 35 or 45 min!!!!
 

[deckchariot]

{{{{{{hugs}}}}}  sorry you're having a rough time of it.  When he wakes at 35 min - is it at every nap?  I'm suspecting then that he's having trouble getting himself over the transition between sleep cycles.  Is he swaddled?  You may want to consider trying w2s.  Here's a few links that should be helpful:

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=85499.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64168.0

hth
michelle

[~Alexa~]

Thanks for answering Michelle!! Some naps are 35 min and some are 45 min. Yes he is swaddled, but he manages to get out of it.  I've read the links you suggested, so do you think I should try w2s? I thought it was used when they nap 45 min.  So should I go inside his room at the 30 min mark or before?
Do you think his A times are correct or should I extend them?

Alexa

[deckchariot]

His A time looks about right, so I wouldn't (at this point) try to extend it.  I might shorten A times if he has a short nap that you can't get him back down for - otherwise the OT accumulates throughout the day, and that's not good.

In terms of w2s, when we did it, I would go in about 15 min before I thought Abby would wake, and I just watched her to see what happened as she woke.  Then I'd go in, and as I saw her start to wake, first I'd just put my hands on her to "hold" her through the jolts.  If she kept waking, I'd start shhhhhhing, and if she kept waking, I'd start pattting.....if she woke all the way, sometimes I'd do pu/pd to get her back to sleep (or just keep doing sshhhh/pat).  I'd only try for maybe 20-30 min to extend the nap, then I'd get her up, do some low key A time til she was hungry, feed her, maybe 20-30 min tops of A time (usually only 10 min - since she'd already been up close to an hr by then), and back to bed.  I only had success with w2s maybe half the time, but that was enough to help her - in 2 weeks, I didn't have to go in at all.  I gradually started weaning down my intervention after the first week.  Does that make sense?

hth
michelle

[~Alexa~]

Thank u so much!!! I'll try w2s as you suggested! If his naps are 35 min, I should go inside his room when he has been 20 min alseep, is this right?

So you don't think he is OT, right? The 30-35 miin naps don't mean he is OT?

[deckchariot]

it's possible that he's OT, but you did mention that you had tried reducing his A time and had not seen any improvement. Changing A times is way easier than w2s, so if you want to give that another go, by all means, do so!  Usually, we find that reducing by 15 min and keeping that for at least 3 days will give you a pretty good idea if that's what your bub needed.  So you could try that and see.  I don't know what you tried before when you reduced A times or how long you tried it.  I would definitely shorten his  A time if he has a short nap - the A time following the short nap should be much shorter (which looks like it's exactly what you did with the routine you posted above - well done!)

So you can go either way - w2s or shortening A times again if you think you didn't give it a good enough chance the first time around.  When I did w2s, I went in at least 15 min before I thought she was going to wake up , just to make sure I was in there early enough.

Let me know what you decide to do - I"m here to support either way   You're doing great!

[~Alexa~]

Thank you so much, Michelle!! It's great to know that I'm not alone!! Well, I hadn't seen your answer, so I started w2s!! For his first nap, I put him down after 1 hr 30 min A time.  After 38 min of being asleep, he had his first jolt, I applied pressure and he started to wake up, so I started shshing and then patting, he closed his eyes immediately, but had several jolts.  After 30 min of applying pressure, he fell asleep. I left his room and after 20 min, he woke up!! So, if I add up all the time he slept, he started his nap at 9:15 a.m. and at 9:52 had his first jolt, he opened his eyes, but closed them around 10:00 a.m and finally woke up at 10:40.  So he slept 1 hr 25 min, is this how you count the time? So this was pretty good, isn't it??

In one of the links you suggested, I read that I could extend his A time by having very low key A time, so I put him in my sling 30 min before his nap, so he was finally in his cot at 12:30 p.m.  I did w2s, and he had his first jolt at 1:10 p.m. He opened his eyes, and he closed them right away.  I didn't have to shsh nor pat, but then, after 20 min of applying pressure, he had another jolt and he started  crying, so I shshed and patted.  He finally fell asleep around 1:40 p.m., I left his room and he slept until 2:15 p.m. It was good!! He slept as a total 1 hr 45 min!!

I'd really appreciate some feedback from you about how I did the w2s.  Is this the way it is done? Should I continue doing it for all his naps or just some?

Thanks for your advice on reducing A times, may be I didn't try it long enough, but I think that right now I will stick with w2s, and see how it works, what do you think?

[deckchariot]

wonderful success with w2s!!!!!  I say if it's working for you and your bub, you're doing it correctly   When I did it, I did it for every nap for several days, then I started hanging back a bit before I intervened to see if she could make it past the jolts by herself, and gradually, she did.  Keep up the great work - it looks like it is indeed just the jolts that are waking him - since you've been able to get him back to sleep.  I'm really impressed!!!!

[~Alexa~]

Yes, it feels really good to have long naps, even though I have to be with him for half the time.  Thank you!
Last night was better than the others!! I think it was because he slept longer naps during the day.  He went to sleep at 7:00 p.m and woke up until 4:15 a.m. to eat and went back to sleep at 5:00 a.m. and slept until 8:00 a.m!!!  He usually wakes up at 7, I have never woke him up, because he does it by himself, but today, I opened my eyes at 8 and he was still asleep, 5 min later, he woke up by himself.  Do you think I should wake him up at 7? Or just let him wake whenever he wants?
I've been thinking about doing a DF, but I'm afraid of trying it because I don't want to mess up with his nights. (which are good).
One more question.....About w2s, I stay for 30 min, because every time I release the pressure, he starts moving, so I apply pressure again, until I get really tired of leaning over his cot, which is usually around 30 min, I release the pressure, he moves once, but continues sleeping.  Do you think I'm staying too long? I don't want him to need me soo much for sleeping.  OR is this the way it is supposed to be?

[deckchariot]

YAY for a great night too!!  I'm sure it's because his naps were so much better!

whether or not to wake him.....that depends on you and how the day goes if you do and how it goes if you don't.  My dd HATES to be woken up, seriously, she's evil if you wake her in the am.  So I don't, never have.  The only exception is if it's 9:00 and she still sleeping (she normally wakes around 7:30), because if she sleeps later than that, it throws our napping off and I'm left with a late bedtime, and I LOVE that she has an early bedtime.  So, that being said, it's really up to you.  If he does ok when he sleeps in a bit, and you like it, then do it!  But if it throws the whole day into an uproar, then wake him.  Does that help?

dream feed - again, that's up to you.  We always did a dream feed and had tremendous success with it, though I know not every mom does.  The key is to do it no later than 11:00 pm (it throws off their night sleep if you do), and to try not to wake them for it (or during it).  We always did it right before we went to bed (around 10:30).  I bf, but would pump and dh would do the bottle  - she wouldn't nurse in her sleep.  She very rarely woke for it, and when she did, she almost always fell back asleep while eating (the one time it's ok!).  I've been told that if you do a df, to give it 2 weeks before deciding whether or not it's working.  I have to say, even as a newborn, she slept from her df til 4 am when she'd wake to feed, so I'm HUGE fan of the df

w2s - if he doesn't wake when he jolts after the 30 min, I'd say try and move your hands off of him earlier.  Hold him for that initial jolt, then when he's calm, slowly remove your hands (I was super cautious here, I'd literally remove one finger at a time...I'm crazy that way).  He seems to really be taking to it well, and the idea is that he learns how to settle himself through the jolts, and it looks like he's able to do that with the 2nd round of jolts, so give it a try.  You could still stay there and watch what happens after you remove your hands from him, and if he's doing it by himself, then you can start leaving the room after you remove your hands.  And eventually, you won't even have to do the first jolt with him.  He seems like a fast learner, so that's great!  Just to warn you that it is really common to experience regression after a few days, don't worry, just keep doing what you're doing and it will pass.

I think you're doing great!

hth
michelle

[~Alexa~]

Thanks Michelle!! It is really working for us!! Today, I had to stay 30 min with him, but he slept for 1 more hour, so as a total, he slept 2 hours!!! Yuppy!! It feels great!!

I'll keep you posted on how things keep going!! Thanks for all your advice and support!

[~Alexa~]

Coming back for some questions......... With w2s, should I apply the pressure BEFORE his first jolt or should I wait for the first jolt to happen?

After the 40 min mark, he has several jolts, is this normal? It has been 1 hour since his first jolt and he is still having other jolts that wake him.  So I have to apply the pressure again. Is this the way it is supposed to be?

[deckchariot]

you are doing such a fabulous job Alexa!!!  With w2s, I waited until she started to stir with that first jolt and then applied pressure, but I don't see any reason why you couldn't do it the other way and do the pressure first  - I just didn't want to have to have my hands on her for a long period of time (I'm short and leaning of the crib bugs me if I do it too long), so I always waited.  I think it is totally normal for them to have multiple jolts - the whole saying "sleeps like a baby" is bogus - babies are often very restless sleepers, the key to a good sleep is helping them learn how to get over those jolts by themselves, not so much to eliminate the jolts.  I'd say since you're having really great success, keep doing what you're doing for another day or two and then start to pull back how much and how often you intervene to see if he can sort it out without as much intervention, and keep doing that until you have pulled back altogether and he does it.  He will most likely still jolt mulitple times as he sleeps, he just won't always wake up, and if he does, he'll go back to sleep - just like we do at night  - we roll over and change positions, and most of the time, don't even wake up, and if we do, we almost always go right back to sleep.  Babies are the same way.

You're doing a fabulous job!!!

[~Alexa~]

I wouldn't be doing it without your help!! Thank you!!

[deckchariot]

that's what BW is here for - helping each other out