calling out to all mums of 45 min nappers!!

[KaiArsenault]

no totally agree with you.  I thought for sure i was going insane!  My lo is not my first but i was acting like it was.  It got to the point where i couldn't distinguish between her tired cries and her hunger cries and then i would just end up crying.  I never realized that you could actually get it this late, my lo is seven months old and it raised it's ugly head just before christmas, the ppd not the baby, ha ha.  yeah have been on the happy pills since last friday and they have just kicked in somewhat, at least the bad thoughts are gone and the anxiety attacks.  It is horrible.

[bebenoby]

So what do you moms do if you only get 3x45 mins nap during the day? My ds is like that and he gets cranky most of the time. I put him to nap and its a fight.

[parmar1]

Hiya...my LO who has just turned 5 months does about 4 45 min naps in the day...and by bedtime she is rather shattered, but still struggles to get past the 45 min mark until around 9pm when she knocks out finally..
I'm just not going to worry about it anymore, although I am going to extend her A time to 2 hours as I think an hour and a half doesnt seem to tire her out at all...
Just go with the flow like all the other lovely mums say...it does get better from what I have read - hopefully....

x

[A pair of Charlies]

Hi all

I had the 45 min nap monster for many many many months. It was awful. And I know how frustrated and tired it makes you. I was a wreck. We had a thread for a while called the 45 min nap monster....

I upped the A time until we got a longer nap. As Mash put in her first post, for us it wasn't just about the A time but also about what went on within it. So when increasing the A time, I would make it last longer sneakily...a long walk around the house on the way to bed etc. I have a really simple, unstimulating wind-down that does not change. It is clear signposts for 5 mins.

Within the extended A time itself I would calm it all down quite early. A sit on my lap infront of the tv.... no stimulating toys, games, noisy electronic things too close to wind-down.

I honestly thought we would never see the end of the 45 min monster. People said it was developmental, but he didn't grow out of it. He did grow out of his routine and needed more A time (in bursts). I increased very very carefully to avoid the OT demon but babes handle increases differently.

All I can recommend is experimenting. At 45 mins, I find that my LO is tired enough to have gone to sleep in the first place, but not tired enough to sleep for longer. Resettling was always a pain. I liken it to dosing on the sofa on a Sunday afternoon: tired enough to dose for 30 mins, not tired enough to sleep for several hours.

HTH

Charlotte

[A pair of Charlies]

Just a thought: this link might help. It gives a guide of the tyoical amount of day and night sleep. And has a bit at the bottom on how to tellif you do have a 45min napper.

HTH

[A pair of Charlies]

Deerrrrrrrrrrrrr....didn't include the link!

Okay: links below (added a bonus one  ):
 * Typical Amounts of Day and night time sleep: http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=85134.0
 * Guide of A times: http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64158.msg476652#msg476652

HTH

Charlotte

[JadeSimos]

Thanks for the link on 'A' time. My lo is 7 months next week and since she is a 40 minute napper she has always done less A time than average. However, from what others have said she is getting to the age where some grow out of this habit. Just the last few weeks my lo has be taking longer naps randomly and is able to be resettled. Only a few weeks ago resettling was out of the question but lately, if she is crying when she wakes up, I can resettle her with minimal effort. i don't even bother if she wakes up happy.

Right now she has been asleep already for 1.5 hours and has not stired at all. I have been increasing her 'A' time just because she seems to be able to handle it without getting too overtired.

I think it is just a case of they do what they want and you can't change it until they are ready (although there is no harm in trying as you won't know if they are ready for the change unless you do).

Also, I found the best thing to concerntrate on is teaching them how to fall asleep themselves, even if it is only for 40 minutes. That way you won't be as frustrated with having to put the baby down so many times during the day if it is not such a big deal to do it. Plus there is more of a likely hood they will outgrow it as they already have the capabilities to resettle.

[Skipperg84]

Can I post here too??
I just posted on "general sleep issues" about this problem, but I think I need to join in here.

I just started him out on 4 EASY over a month ago, he turned 5 months last week, and it was going ok.  He now STTN!! We have been working with his naps from day 1, they have always been 30-45 minutes long.  In the beginning, we had a few days of beautiful perfect 2-hour naps after we realized that putting him on his tummy helped him transition into a longer sleep after the 45 minute hump.  He then started to learn to roll, and at the 45 minute mark would roll off his tummy and start playing with his toes, hands, cooing in his crib, etc. etc.  We still tried to extend his nap by flipping him back on his tummy and doing shhh/pat, pu/pd and after about 30 minutes he would go back to sleep for another 45 minutes.

The last few days, he is refusing to go back to sleep and I am at my wit's end hovering over his crib trying to get this child to sleep longer!  He wakes happily and I've tried waiting to see if he will fall back asleep (he just plays), I go in right at the 45 minute mark to see if I can pat him back to sleep (he just flips over and starts smiling at me), or I spend the whole 2 hour nap time trying to get him back to sleep (he eventually gets hysterical, is screaming and kicking and slamming his legs down until I get him up).  Today I decided to just get him up after 45 minutes because I don't have the strength to fight him anymore.  I am TERRIFIED he will start with his NW's again, though!!! 

I guess my question is, for those that deal with the 45 minute nap thing, how does your schedule look?  How can I make sure it's still EASY if he is napping so short?  Also, I will try extending A time but this can only happen for the first activity time, correct?  Once he gets that first short nap then the subsequent A times have to be shorter to accomodate that, right?  What if I don't know EXACTLY what time he wakes in the morning?  I usually hear him anywhere from 6:00-6:45 am....I just don't know if I should start tweaking the schedule, or if I should just stick with what TRacey states in her book (just be firm and keep doing pu/pd until he falls asleep - I just feel horrible forcing him to do something he is clearly so unhappy about!)
HELP!

[KaiArsenault]

What is he like between his naps?  Is he happy or cranky?

[Skipperg84]

He is generally happy, but he gets fussy much quicker when he's had 45 minute naps (we have been struggling with this for awhile, before we started EASY he was inconsolable by the end of the day and would wake up 3-4x per night).  THis is why I am not sure about giving in and going back to the 45 min nap thing...

[KaiArsenault]

hmmmm.....my little one is a 30-40 minute napper but is happy for the two hours between naps and sleeps beautifully at night, although her short naps drive me crazy.  I tried everything to extend her naps nothing worked.  I also found that if she sleeps more than two hours a day her night sleep is affected in the sense that she doesn't sleep as much at night.  In your case, your little one sounds like he needs more sleep during the day. How many naps would he take at 45 minutes during the day?

[Skipperg84]

He has been STTN for the past two weeks or so - this was even when we were trying to extend his naps (we'd usually get him to do 2-45 minute naps within the 2 hour time slot).  Before when he wasn't STTN, he would take 4 or 5 45 minute naps throughout the day.  Today I have done 4 naps with him so we'll see how he sleeps tonight.  He just went about an hour and a half before he started to show tired signs, so maybe all he needs is those 45 minute naps!

It just drives me crazy because then we have to be so close to home throughout the day.  He has always been a difficult baby with sleeping and I feel like I haven't gotten out of the house since he's been born!

[A pair of Charlies]

If your nights are going well, then it sounds like your babies are getting the right nap hours in during the day. But that they are 45 mins is frustrating for you and if it's not necessary, then that's even worse IMO. 45 mins isn't great for the babes either. They need longer naps in smaller chunks. They are busy developing.

I think it may be a sleep training issue - they are able to transition through to the next cycle easily and need help learning that skill OR they aren't tired enough to sleep longer.  Skipper - he's waking up and happy, not tired, wants to play. As far as he's concerned he's napped and refreshed. He's fussy and cranky sooner in the next A time because he is still a little tired from the earlier A time, so yes he needs to go down sooner. If you try increasing the A, try the 5 min increments to be on the safe side of the OT monster. This might help: http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=120362.0

Try this for more info on why experimenting to get past 45 mins is worthwhile for your babies sake and yours: http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64159.0

If you're convinced you have 45 mins nappers, I think there's a support thread on here: http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=114846.0.

Honestly, there are loads of mums in the same boat. 45 min naps and they don't seem to shift. I remember KaiArsenault's thread a month or so ago with the same query. A BW posted that had a 45min napper too...to adjust the EASY around it as that's just how some babies are. A few days later, the same poster reported back that she'd tried upping her A times and suddenly got good long naps! Most of us have been there, and most get good naps by increasing A times and closely assessing what is going on during the day (ways it's different from night sleep surroundings, carefully planning that A time to be not too much action towards the wind-down). Some are 45 mins nappers but for you own sanity and your babes wellbeing, it's worth making sure that is the case isn't it?

[MamaiNorge]

Oh, no, please don't tell me that this starts around 10w/2mo?!!!     I was hoping her (7.5w) all of a sudden short napping behaviour had to do with circumstances...  ai, ai,...  I have just posted something about this (5 min ago - "not 45min monster, but 5min monster?")...
Oh dear, now I am really scared!!!   
She doesn't always wake up happy though.     Let's say: 50% of the time crying and 50% of the time happy, but only for 10-15 min...  I did try extending her A time for 2-3 days, at least in the mornings, because she seems so awake then, but it seemed to make her only VERY fussy... 

By the way, ApairofCharlies, you say you have a simple wind down routine?  Can you explain it maybe?  I am looking for some good tips regarding wind down.   

[Skipperg84]

So last night he slept through, waking up at 5:45am (bedtime was 6:45am!)  I am happy that he STTN, even though he only had 4 45 minute naps yesterday.  It seems like his nightsleep doesn't get affected by his daytime sleep (he started STTN when he started taking longer naps in the beginning) but the last few days he has also been STTN even though he was still getting the 45 minute naps...hmmm

Here's my issue with extending the A time - it takes him anywhere from 15 min. -1 hour to fall asleep, how can I possibly extend his A time if I don't know when he will fall asleep?  Yesterday, I put him down after an hour and a half A time because he was giving me tired cues (rubbing eyes, yawning, getting fussy, etc. etc.)  It then took him an hour to fall asleep!!  So does this mean he was OT? UT? He woke up 45 minutes later not really crying, but 10 minutes later he was inconsolable!  We had to put him right to bed because he was so miserable!! (and I wanted to try to put him to bed earlier to see if he would sleep in later - this got all messed up because it took him an hour to fall asleep in the first place!)

My baby would seriously stay up the whole day if I let him - before when he was still a newborn, I started this whole "trying to get him to sleep thing" when I realized that my baby wasn't napping at all.  I remember him being about 3 weeks old, taking him to a friend's BBQ - this kid stayed up the whole day, I'm talking like, 6 hours straight without a nap and he was totally fine - cooing and staring at all the people holding him, etc. etc. he wasn't crying at all and I remember thinking that that wasn't normal (especially when i read on here that newborns have an A time of MAYBE an hour - my baby NEVER slept for more than 10 minutes at a time when he was a newborn, so I guess a S time of 45 minutes is an improvement??)

I just don't know what to do anymore or where to start - I can start trying to slowly extend his A time, but this makes it hard to know exactly when to put him down since it can take him so long to fall asleep, I usually just read his cues and "guesstimate" what is a good naptime for him - this morning when he woke at 5:45 am, I fed at 6:30am and put him down at 8:00am - he just now fell asleep, 25 minutes later!  So that's over 2.5 hours of A time (tried to get him right at 2.5 hours as others had suggested)....sorry this got so long winded but how do i try to extend A time when is "fall asleep" time is so varied?