please help me to get him to sttn

[sanaya]

i just need the moral support and guidance to help me get my 5 month old to stop waking at night.

off late hes up every two hours and i give him the breast (i know i know, he need to feed to sleep...he does take in milk when i give him the breast).

hes a good napper during the day, no props to sleep but at night if he stirs (habitually) he will not settle till i give him the breast.

how do i stop this? do i pu/pd or just not attend to him?

i ready to do this. help me girls please!

thanks
sanaya

[anna*]

It is not at all unusual for a five month old to need to feed in the night, so he probably does need to feed - although not every two hours! What is his EASY routine in the daytime like? Do you try to settle him without feeding, sometimes? What happens?

anna
x

[sanaya]

thanks girls.
well last night i just couldnt get up any more i just let him cry till  he went back to sleep.
the days are really good.
we have a morning nap of 1.5 hours
A time 2 hours
another 1.5 nap
then a cat nap in the evening and into bed.

its just that whenever he got up as a baby i used to feed him and the trend continued. no i have never tried soothing him without the feed.
so should i just carry on like last night.
when should i give the last feed. he has one at 8 then at 11 and usually his habitual waking is at 1/2 then at 4 . some nights are rough.

i dont have bw solves all your problems and i dont knw what tracy has to say about stopping the night feed. he eats really well thru the day. bf as well as solids so i REALLY dont think hes THAT hungry.

let me know what to do. tonight is night 2.....

[sanaya]

i tell you my angel baby is no trouble at all. at the correct time, i swaddle him and put him into his cot and he moans himself to sleep (if he is ot i may have to pat him till he starts to settle) and hes really good with naps.

[TDR'smom]

Please don't let him cry himself back to sleep!!  He just needs some help soothing himself back to sleep!  Have you tried a paci, he might just want the comfort of sucking.

[sanaya]

i went cold turkey and weaned him off the paci coz he was getting up a million times for me to replug him. since then i've had no short naps, independent sleep but its just the night feeds that i cant sseem to conquer.
do u think i should pick him up and soothe him or soothe him in the cot.
dont really want to reintroduce the paci now that i've successfully weaned it but suggestions are welcome.

xxx sanaya

[anna*]

Please don't leave him to cry! He cries because he needs help to settle - he doesn't know how! - he needs to be taught! Have you tried shh-pat with him? What happened with the other wake ups last night?

anna
x

[Jocasta]

Just to reiterate, pps, please don't let him cry himself to sleep - no one should have to do that   I know that it's hard because you're completely shattered and suffering yourself but he really does just need a little help.  Hugs though honey.  I know the frustration well.

A five month old often does still need to feed during the night, I would recommend paying attention to the timings of his wakings.  If your lo is waking at the exact same time, this is an indication of habitual waking.  If there is variation to the timings, this is more likely down to genuine hunger.

Having said this, some babies (as do adults) will drift in and out of deep sleep throughout the night and when a lo has trouble self soothing, this can result in NWs which aren't necessarily habitual OR hunger. 

At five months, he shouldn't need to feed more frequently than every four hours so that's a good rough guide for you to bear in mind. 

I'd recommend (and it's how we finally battled a similar problem), paying attention to the time.  If it's been four hours since his last feed, offer the breast and as tempting as it is to just give him a quick feed and put him down, let him take a full feed and offer the second breast when he's done with the first.  Let him feed for as long as he will.  If he wakes before the four hour mark and you know that he had a full feed previously, I'd try sh/pt in his cot.  If this doesn't work, try pu/pd. 

Also, don't ever rush a feed during the day.  Make sure he takes as much milk as he will.  This was part of my problem.  Mae's always been a super efficient feeder so I was finding myself just getting on with things when she first came off.  Someone mentioned about milk intake during the day and I then started offering her some more when she first came off. She took it and that has helped.

You need to be aware that sleep training can be absolutely shattering and it can be somewhat soul destroying.  BUT it generally does work.   You need to be consistent, and you also need to be kind to your lo and remember that he's just a baby and he doesn't know what he's doing to you   And FWIW, I know exactly where you're coming from as I've been there so much with my youngest.  Hugs.

Keep us posted

[TDR'smom]

OOps Sanaya, I forgot about you dropping the paci!!  I don't mind plugging the paci over night every couple hours!  I figure eventually she will be able to find it plug it herself!  Thankfully, it did not cause any short naps.

Your lo might be old enough to do pick up/put down?

[Peek-a-boo]

Hi sweetie, {{hugs}}--I'll come back soon and post some ideas. 

[Peek-a-boo]

Just properly read this thread, and totally agree with Jocasta's advice! 

Are you doing a dream feed?  If so, I'd plan on doing the dream feed, plus one more feed about 4 hours later.  If you're not doing a dream feed, then I'd plan on two feeds, at least 4 hours apart. 

For all other wakings, I'd use shush/pat or pu/pd or some combination of the two to settle him.   The first few times you settle him without feeding, it will likely take quite a while (took my DD three hours one nigh ), but eventually  he will settle. 

Something else I find really helpful is that when you do feed (other than the dreamfeed where LO is asleep the whole time) you end the feed BEFORE lo is asleep.  Keep on eye on baby's sucking.  If it starts to slow after just a few minutes, gently stir him to get him to take a full feed.  When it seems he's taken a full feed and his sucking is starting to slow like he's now drifting off to sleep, end the feed and return him to his bed awake (he'll be milk drunk and drowsy).  Ideally you want him to know he's going back into his crib so that he gets the idea that even when he's fed at night, the place he falls asleep is IN the crib.

After a week or two of this, then you can look at the feeds and decide if perhaps you can drop down to just one. 

{{Hugs}}  Hope you're getting more sleep soon!

[sanaya]

thanks alot.
taking in all your advice.

let me just post yesterdays routine and can u tell me whats going on? last night was really good. he was up at 2am and then at 6.30am for feeds and up for the day by 8.15 (thats brilliant for me!!!)

awake : 7.40 am
E 7.45 am breast
   8.45 am cerelac
S 9.40-11.15 (1 hr 30 min)

E 12.25 pm
S 1.20-3.05 (1hr 35 min)

E 4 pm (only cerelac quite a bit)
S 5.15-6.15 (usually its a 30-45min nap but he took a long one here)

E 7.25 breast + cerelac
8.10 started wind down
8.30 started screaming alot when i put him in his cot. so i fed him again. he took in quite a bit
S 8.45 - 9.30  would not settle so i offered the breast (sorry)

10 pm was up again, burped him and unswaddled him (seemed to settle so i put him down)
2.00am feed  6.30am feed (did well unswaddled)

few questions : immediately after i bf i dont offer the solids because he doesnt eat so much. should i, so that the eating is at 3.5/4 hour intervals?

why is he so hungry before bed time. he was really well fed during the day. could it be a growth spurt?

should i put him to bed earlier? or later? his daytime A is 2 hrs but i feel he wants longer A time in the evening. i thought the evening A time should be short and low key.

i will be a good girl and try shhhh patt at night now if he wakes between 2-6 (correct!) or should i avoid the 2am feed if i have fed him at 11?

thank you once again for all the support, dont worry i wont let him cio anymore. it was just that one night that my body rebelled! dint meant to panic you all.

sorry so many questions.

much love
xxxxxx sanaya

[Jocasta]

Is he only getting the breast twice during the day at 12hr intervals?  Sounds a bit much to expect from a five month old... (unless you had what I lovingly refer to as a "blonde moment" and have missed a feed or two out).  Babies should be on at least four milk feeds until ten months - minimum.

Also, 7.25pm seems a little late to be giving a solid meal.  (sorry, just thinking out loud )

I'm not great at seeing problems in routine but I know from my own kids that they've always had a 12 hour day - i.e. up at 7 means bed at 7...

Have a think about the above in case it'd help at all. 

Hugs

[anna*]

Hi Sanaya

I've just seen that Jocasta has posted the same questions I have - wondering why only 2BFs in a day, and also he seems to be having a lot of solids (3 x per day?) for someone under 6 months old. Is there a reason for that? It might be that he was finding it difficult to settle in the evening because his tummy was giving him trouble? Even at 13 months, our evening meal is at 5.30pm so that there's plenty of time for it to 'settle' before bedtime.

Do you do a dreamfeed? If he takes a full BF at 10.30 or 11 hopefully he will be able to last until 2.30 before the next feed. At this age, I would feed at night 4 hourly.

HTH, and hugs

anna
x

[sanaya]

no no, i just skipped the 4 oclock yesterday coz i was out.
maybe is should give the evening feed earlier and put him to bed early too.
thanks again. will keep all of you posted.

xx  s