7.5 month old too wired to nap

[Thea Mum]

Hi there,

Sorry you are having a rough time.

I don't have any solutions for you as actually i am having a similar problem with my 7.5 month old. 

She has been a great napper and night sleeper for a long time now and just puts herself to sleep in her cot.  Her top front teeth are coming through which started to disturb her naps and now after a few weeks i can only get her to nap if i take her for a walk in her pram.  Thankfully night time is unchanged although has been waking about an hour earlier.

She just seems to be wired when i put her in her cot during the day despite showing all the tired signs.  I am trying to do a good winddown but nothing is helping, she just starts bouncing her legs off the matress and cot sides and rolls around frantically.  I know my resorting to desperate measure of pram use is probably making it worse but she needs sleep so don't know what else to do.

I have had to adjust her routine as everything has gone so messy so i am hoping she will start to catch up soon but i am at the end of my rope with spending all day obsessing and being focused on getting her to sleep for hours on end.

If anyone has any suggestions i would really appreciate it.  Fell i am misisng something simple!

Thanks 

[Thea Mum]

Thanks all,

Before things started spiralling her routine was reasonably flexible and all hinged on how long she stayed awake after her first feed, see below;

7am up and bottle 7oz
7.30am to 10am nap (roughly 1hr30 to 1hr45 within this time slot, sometimes only awake for ten minutes after bottle!)
10am breakfast
11am bottle 5oz
11.30am to 2pm nap (roughly 1hr30 to 2hrs within this time slot)
2pm lunch
3pm bottle 5oz
4pm to 5pm nap ( roughly 30 to 45 mins within this time slot)
5pm dinner
6pm bottle
6.30pm bed

The week before Christmas it all changed and she started getting fussy feeding and naps were shortening and getting harder to settle.  Last week i made the decision that she maybe needed a new routine to go with her age plus her meals were too close together so i am trying the following.

7am up and bottle 7oz
8am breakfast
8.30am to 10am ish nap
11am bottle 5oz
12pm lunch
12.30pm to 2.30pm ish nap
3pm bottle 5oz
4pm to 5pm nap
5pm dinner
6pm bottle 7oz
6.30pm bed

I expected things to be a little rough with a change as it will throw her body clock out but as things had gone to pot anyway i figured it would be a good time.  I go back to work soon so want to get things sorted if i can asap.

I am starting PU/PD tomorrow to see if that helps.  Just re read my book so feeling a little more positive now, but not sure i will feel the same in the morning when i actually do it!

Just really frustrated that i have allowed her to get out of good habits.  Confused why she still goes off so easily at night though, not complaining, but confused.  If she can do it on her own then why not during the day?  On the plus side new routine has definately solved the feeding issues.

Am i doing something really wrong here or do i just need to hang in there?

Thanks

[deckchariot]

lynners - keeping a log for a few days may help you figure out a pattern - great idea!  Keep us posted.

Thea mom - I'm guessing your bub is ready for longer A time - by 7.5 mos, most bubs are doing close to 3 hrs of A time, so 1.5 hrs looks really, really low.  Do you think your bub can handle more  A time?

[Thea Mum]

Hi Michelle,

I suspect you are right as i have been thinking along the same lines, and was hoping the new routine would head us in that direction but do you think it is still too much sleep?  Could give me a rough idea of what routine you would recomend, i am open to all ideas?

The problem i have found with the new routine is that she is so used to going straight back to bed after her first bottle that keeping her awake to have breakfast first means i miss her sleep window and therefore impacts the rest of the day.  Previously with the exception of the first A time she would make a good 2 hours, sometimes 2.5 but she really liked her sleep and i just couldn't keep her awake.  Likewise i just can't keep her up past her 6pm feed and wind down or she gets really grumpy and OT.

Now that she is on this new routine i am finding her cues really difficult because she wants to sleep when she shouldn't and then is OT by the time i get her there.  If i give in though then this new routine will never get going.  Kind of a damned if i do damned if i don't situation.

Really appreciate your responses, it's great to know someone is out there!! 

[Thea Mum]

Hi Lynners,

Glad to hear you have had a few better days.  Having been feeling a bit guilty today as i have kind of hijacked your thread!  Will set my own up after this post so that yours doesn't confusing.

Busy couple of days but seem to be making some progress.  Have now sorted the morning naps and she is sleeping around 1hr 20/30 but like you i think she needs more as she wakes up and is still tired.  I am confused about how to then handle her next awake time and the nap that will follow, i can't get the timing right and her cues are all over the shop!

She used to always have 2 hours awake time and then like clockwork would have a nap.  SHe is obviously getting a little older and so i presume needs longer awake time but either i am getting it wrong or it just needs some time for her body clock to adjust as after her morning nap she seems permanently tired but won't sleep.

Last two days have been..

6.15am to 6.45 wake up 
7am Bottle (earliest i will do bottle is 6.45 but she wakes up cheery so i don't have to panic)
8am Breakfast
8.30am to 10am nap
11am Bottle
12pm Lunch (at this time she has been up 2 hours but is rubbing eyes frantically and yawning, if i put her down she won't sleep)
3pm Bottle
5pm Dinner
6pm Bottle followed by bed routine, asleep by 6.45ish.

You will notice that no nap is listed after lunch as i just can't get her to settle.  Yesterday she finally went down around 3.30pm for 40 minutes and woke up screaming, something she never does, she always wakes up chatty and smiling.  Today i got her to nap around 2.30pm for an hour but only because i took her out in the pram.

Do you think if i extend her morning nap it will make the rest of the day easier to judge?

Anyway, i feel a lot happier as we have had more normal days this week.  Just need to sort that midday nap!

Thanks x

[deckchariot]

It looks like you're definitely making progress with the first nap - 1.5 hrs is really pretty good.  Is she waking happy from that one?  I suspect the tiredness issues are a matter of her adjusting to the longer A times - you've gone from 1.5 hrs to 2 hrs - that's a really big jump.  I would say to keep working on the A time extension - but just do 15 min every 3 - 5 days.  So if her first A time is now 2 hrs, keep it there for at least 3 days.  If she naps at least 1 hr, keep her next   A time also at 2 hrs.  If she naps less than 1 hr and you cannot extend her nap (either with pat/shh or pu/pd), then shorten that next A time.

As you're extending her A time, keep that extra A time really low key.  I think it was around this age that my dd suddenly started needing a much longer wind down, so about 15 min before I'd usually start her wind down, we'd go in her room and have "quiet play" for a bit, then go into the wind down.  So you may want to try that.  At 7.5 mos, there's so much more going on in her world, that she just may be having trouble settling down to sleep, so lengthening that wind down while extending her A time can certainly help.

hth
michelle

[Thea Mum]

Hi Michelle,

Thanks for the advice and setting up this thread.

Third day of successful morning nap so happy that the timings are right on that one, and she seems to be getting used to the longer A time. 

Managed a lunch time nap today in her cot for the first time in weeks and she went for an hour.  It took an hour to get her to settle so i will take your advice and try an longer wind down tomorrow to see if that helps shorten the length of time it takes to get her down.  She is just so busy that even when i do take her to her room for some quiet play and a story she is climbing all over me or trying to grab the book!!  Perhaps I will also try just keeping her A time in general quiet after her morning nap to see if that helps.

Will let you know how it goes

Thanks

[deckchariot]

it will most likely just take her some time to get used to the new routine.  I do think that I'd continue to extend that A time every 5 days or so to move her towards where most bubs her age are.  I suspect as you do that and do a bit longer wind down that her naps will sort out.  Let me know how you get on.

[Thea Mum]

Hi Michelle,

Things are going really well. 

[Thea Mum]

Oops, must have pressed return in error!!

Anyway, things are going really well.  We have the morning naps and A time sorted and she is now napping for almost 2 hours the last three days.  Still can't quite get the next nap right but persevering.  The odd time i have got her down she only sleeps around 45 mins and is then too tired later in the afternoon so i know i need to try and extend that nap and we should be on track. 

Just to check does the following routine look more on track for her age....

6.30am wake up
7am bottle
8am breakfast
8.30 sleep 1hr 50
11am bottle
12pm lunch
1.30pm nap 45 mins -  to extend to 1hr 30 ish
3pm bottle - once lunch time nap settles i will switch this to a snack - Is that right?
4.45pm dinner
6pm bottle
6.30 bed

She is awake roughly 2 hours first thing and then ideally 2 x 3 hour awake times.

She does seem to spend most of her awake times rubbing her eyes and showing sleepy signs.  I just read somewhere else that at this age their sleepy signs could also be a sign of boredom or needing a change of scene, do you think this could be it or could it just be because that second nap hasn't adjusted yet.  She has been waking randomly during the night but i think is partly teething and partly not enough day time sleep so could also explain the frantic eye rubbing.

Apologies this is quite long!

Thanks x

[deckchariot]

YAY!!!  So glad that you are seeing progress!!!  It's absolutely possible that her eye rubbing is not a tired sign - could be that she's bored - I'm wondering if it's an allergy issue too - that her eyes are bothering her, not that she's tired.  I know our house is soooooooo dry in the wintertime, and sometimes my eyes are dry - so maybe she's bothered?  I know I'm reaching there...

The routine is definitely looking better - 3 hrs is a much more typical A time.  I would definitely work on extending that 2nd nap.  If you cannot extend it, you might want to look at moving bedtime a tad bit earlier, or offering a short catnap maybe from 4 - 4:30 just to help her make it til dinner.  I would also keep working on extending that first A time to move it closer to 3 hrs.

Of course, if she's teething....well, that's it's own set of challenges

so glad things are improving!!

[Thea Mum]

Gahhhh!!  Terrible day today, didn't do either nap although i know it is down to another tooth appearing yesterday so hopefully just a blip.

Will keep working on the A times and that 2nd nap.  I think i did it a bit quick and shifted her straight to 3 hours instead of gradually.  My problem now is no matter what time i try she won't go for it so i have thrown her out on that one myself.  The lesson learned is build up to it in smaller stages i.e. 15 mins at a time.  In the meantime any ideas how i can get her on track, the walks are keeping me fit but time consuming.

Also thanks for advice re eye rubbing.  Something i will keep an eye on as i am the most allergic person ever so it is possible she has inherited it from me!!  Poor thing!!

Thanks x

[deckchariot]

are you giving her anything for the teething pain?  We had great success with homeopathic teething tablets - I don't know where you live, but in the States, a company called Hylands makes them.  Then at night we would use either Tylenol or Motrin for pain.  It's really, really hard when they are in pain from teeth.

In terms of getting her back on track, I'd pick an A time that she was comfortable with prior to teething, and start from there - just adding 10-15 min to it every 3-5 days.  You may have to use pu/pd to help her get to sleep if she's crying (as long as you've dealt with the pain issue).  Or find a version of pat/shh that will work now that she's a bit older.

hang in there!
michelle