BED vs Nap routines

[LindyLou71]

Looking for a thread about this topic - a little more current that 2005 if possible - ALSO I am specifically interested in whether or not the Bedtime and Nap should be the same - ie swaddle, mobile, song, story etc...

[* Paula *]

Hope you don't mind hun, I am going to pop this over to the Nap boards.

[Mashi]

We don't do ours exactly the same, but with similar things:

Naptime routine - sits on my lap facing outwards, gets his dummy, plays with my fingers, I stroke his head, bounce a bit, have a little chat (pretty one sided, but these days a little more participation from DS!). Only a few minutes of that, then we get the 'naptime book' out - we have one cloth pastel coloured story book (counting animals) so it's not noisy and bright to get him stimulated. We look through it, he likes to pull at things, etc.  When the book is done and we've played with it and he's had enough, I put it aside and continue sitting.  I start humming usually and occassionally do a little bounce.  When he is ready (in our case a yawn or eye rubbing), swaddle and carry up to bed.

Bedtime routine - bath, pjs, and bottle.  When feeding is done he sits on my/DH's lap and everything is the same, but we don't do the book. The book is for naps only (which took DH about a month to remember).  But we sit like that and hum and chat quietly and let DS play with our fingers, etc.  Then take up when he's ready to go.

Does that help at all?

[~Alexa~]

Hey!! We do different routines.
Naptime - Go into nursery, close the curtains, swaddle, sit down and then, to the cot, shpat to sleep.
Bedtime - Bath, pjs, swaddle, bottle, lullaby, go to bed. 

Hope it helps!

Alexa

[LindyLou71]

Thanks -
Naps - I look for the cues, close the blinds -(I tell him) cuddle, on my shoulder - I sing "you are my sunshine" then swaddle and into the crib
Bedtime - Bath, little massage - just a little aveeno lotion actually, warm bottle, hubby feeds him, we have to keep him upright due to reflux, he really fights the swaddle so tonight we are trying a sleep bag - last night our little houdini escaped from my super swaddle!!

My question was b/c at bed - he goes down w/o much fussing usually and he is awake/drowsy. 

Naps - sometimes right to sleep but at 30 mins he is awake...I try sh/pat, I try pu/pd, I try for a long time and nothing gets him back to sleep, for naps.  2 days now and by the evening he is a trainwreck so I didn't know if I should try the same as I do for bed but no bath...I don't know

Today I was out and he nodded off in his car seat at a friends - woke at 30 mins and I rocked the seat and he drifted back for 2 hours!  so how do I do this to the crib?

~L

[~*~Louisa~*~]

could he be over tierd for his naps? its good he knows how to settle himself cause he is doing well at night

someone told me naps and nighttime sleep are two difo parts of the brain cause DD2 settled beautifully at night but not naps

[Evgenia]

I would resist rocking ur lo in his crib as u could end up doing that for months to come. And in regards to having the same wind down for naps as u do for bed, that could work, but I would also cut out the feed as this could mess up his routine completly. Maybe u could do the massage they tend to work wonders.
But I would say that the fact ur lo wakes up after 30 mins could indicate that he's not able to transition to the next cycle of sleep after comming out of REM sleep. Some babies find it easier to send themselvs back to sleep after each cycle at night as it is quite and very dark, but during the day noise and daylight could affect their ability to do so.
Hope this is of any help!

[anna*]

Naps - sometimes right to sleep but at 30 mins he is awake...I try sh/pat, I try pu/pd, I try for a long time and nothing gets him back to sleep, for naps.  2 days now and by the evening he is a trainwreck so I didn't know if I should try the same as I do for bed but no bath...I don't know
~L

If he goes to sleep OK for his naps (usually) but wakes at 30 mins, I don't think it's a problem with the wind-down routine but it sounds like he could be overtired? Can you post your routine in EASY format?

anna
x

[* Paula *]

One thing to remember is that during the first three months of a babies life, they tend to work on their night time sleep and then from 3-6 months is when they really work on their naps.

[LindyLou71]

Thanks Paula I didn't realize that at all - especially b/c our nights aren't great.  I had 2 whole hours of sleep last night.  Today was the same I swear I could set a 30 min watch by him.  The first Nap I tried to see what wakes him - he is swaddled, and then somehow he is just awake - I hear a little grunt and ta-da here I am. I tried to put my hand on his chest to soothe him and I shhhhhhh - ed him but he was awake. So I brought him downstairs with me after 30 mins of this and laid him on his tummy on a little cot thing we have next to me and after a few mins of fussing he slept.

Nap #2 - I watched REALLY closely for the cues.  So I decided before one hour was up we were in his room and I did some tummy time and read him a story and chatted, I changed his diaper and swaddled him I did my "routine" on my shoulder hummed -you are my sunshine - closed the shutters - said goodnight sunshine - down in his crib (there was music in the background playing, and we have a white noise thing that sounds like a heartbeating) He laid there - I shh/hand on chest whispered good-nap and I left the room - he cried out for a couple seconds and then off to dreamland.  2:11pm - at 2:41 ( I kid you not) he was awake.  Of course I am EXHAUSTED last night was a long night and long story.  *I will post my EASY at the end.  But my question is - the heartbeat thing turns off by itself and I try to restart it b4 the waking up should I or just leave it?  Should I turn the lullabys off? 

EASY * this is not the day I want but this is today
E -3 am
S - at 4 - he was tough to burp and we have reflux so I persisted
E - 5:30 am * I tried the paci first but he was really crying and rooting - he is sucking his hands now - and doesn't really like the paci
S - 6:15 but he was stirring by 7:00 - he was quiet but awake so I left him in his crib babbling at his mobile
E - 9 am I waited for his signs of hunger
S - 10:10 - in crib - lullaby's on...he went to sleep quickly with this one
     10:40  - awake - this is when I tried sh/pat and then he ended up on his belly downstairs with me
E - 12:30 - also when he woke up
A - tummy time and such
S - 2 pm - Crib - again off to dreamland for 30 mins
   I tried the sh/pat he wouldn't even close his eyes he was smiling and just looking around I sat in his room both times 1- to restart the hearbeat and 2 to see him waking. He didn't go back to sleep. I tried for 30 mins.  So 3:30 came and he was rooting and I fed him
E - 3:30
A - not much he was falling asleep during the bottle and I WAS SOOO tired, I changed him and I had him on my shoulder to chill he fell asleep so I moved him to his carseat (we used to sleep him there) and I also crashed.  I think I cried today as much as he did.
S - 4:30 is to 5:45 my hubby came home early to help me b/c I am so tired

It is now 6:30 and it will be up to him I will watch for his eating cues - I don't know if I should just feed him at 6:30 and then do bed and bath at 8 and stuff or if I should wait for his cues?  This is when my mind plays tricks on me, I would love to start / end my days at 8.  I almost feel like doing bed/bath now and have him in bed by 7:30 but then my hubby would never see him which is why 8 works... I may just wait and see...

Our 30 min nap issues started (or I noticed them) off and on when I started to follow BW.  BUT I used to have a couple good days and then the odd "off" track day.  This last week we haven't had a great nap day yet (not in his crib) he sleeps if we are out but I even went to the movies with my friends on Wed during when he "should be asleep" and he was but 10 mins in he was wide awake - their babies totally asleep but not mine!. 

Yesterday the morning nap was the same 30 mins, I walked over to my neighours whose son is 10 days younger and by the way sleeps from 11 - 6:45...He did the same there I fed him and when he yawned I put him in his carseat all cozy and he drifted off - 30 min wide awake my friend couldn't believe it either.  I Accidental parented...and rocked the seat and he went back to sleep off and on for a couple hours.

I remember our very first day doing the crib - no carseat, no bassinet and he did a 1.5 morning nap, 2.5 midday and then 1 hour in the afternoon - I thought why the heck didn't I do this before now!  Ya that was ONE Day and since then it has been tough. 

I want to have a life and sometimes I wonder If I am trying to much too soon, but I read so much about sleeping and child develpment I am so worried my kid is going to have delays b/c of his 30 min naps.  At night he is getting harder to settle last night we fed him and bath etc.. and it took 1 hour almost 10pm!! until he fell asleep.  I don't want to give up but something has to give!!!  My son was 3 weeks early does this change anything - is 10 weeks too soon to be instilling all this?  My pediatrician and many doctors say you can't spoil a child before 6 months and routine especially sleeping should be approached around 3 months.  I know I need to relax a bit but it is also difficult b/c my friends x2 are on Maternity leave and one does 7 hours at night and the other 8.  One is breastfed the other is bottle.  One does every 2 hours feeds in the day the other does 3 - 3.5...but she just follows his cues.

HELP
Linda

 

[anna*]

((((hugs)))) Lindy you must be so exhausted.

Also, how long is he usually awake for, between naps (including feeding and including all the wind-down and shh-pat before sleep)? Remember that after a short nap, he will need a shorter time awake before the next nap.

anna
x

[LindyLou71]

Well today was the same he went down at 9:13 and was up at 9:43.   Last night he got up at 5 to eat, back to bed, then he was stirring around 7, he would drift in and out of sleep so at 8 I got him up and changed and we did a bottle (he only took 3 oz)  At 8:45 he was yawning so I took him upstairs turn down the shutters swaddled him and he was falling asleep on me so into his bed he went - and was sound asleep - 30 mins later he is WIDE awake - and I watch him he goes from asleep to awake!  I tried to sh/pat NOPE lies there not really crying just grunting at me and smiling...isn't phased by it, his room is dark and today I didn't play any music just had his fan on. 

Anna - he is 10 weeks old. Do you have a suggestion?  I am open, we gave in last night b/c I couldn't see straight and my hubby works 12 hours today and there would be no way for me to do this again.  So he went to bed earlier b/c he was getting fussy and rather than keep him up I decided lets put him down earlier, I was also going to do a dream feed but I couldn't keep my eyes open - so 7:30 we did bath/bottle/Bed,- was asleep by 8:15.  At 11:15 he woke up so we gave him a feed and instead of putting him in his cot we slept him in his carseat in the moses basket in our room.  He went from 11:45 to 4:45.  I fell like a new woman lol - after that feed I returned him to the carseat and he fell asleep but it was off and on - I could hear him.  At 7:30 I laid him with me in bed - not to sleep but to chat and he was laughing and smiling - like his old self!.  So we came downstairs I got his bottle ready and he only had 3 ozs....

What should have happened next?  If I fed him at 8-8:30, we have to keep him up right for 15 mins, and at 8:45 he was yawning so I went up and there really wasn't time for "wind=down" b/c he was almost asleep on me!  So off to the crib. 

I would love some suggestions to try - our next feed s/b around 11 but I am not going to force the bottle - I went with his cues yesterday and it went well.  I also know today that if he doesn't sleep well at the next nap then he will be very OT.  I have even tried to feed him then go right upstairs and hang in his room. 

I am planning on always starting his naps in his room/crib b/c I really want this too work. 

Maybe I should hold him for 30 mins till he goes beyond that point and do it for a while until he learns to do it?  But he manages at night so I am not sure what happens in the day unless it is because he is trying to sort out his nights first? 

Sigh..... at least today I am rested enough to do this lol
Linda

[anna*]

Hi hun. Glad you managed to get a bit of rest last night. How did the rest of the day go? You must forgive me, I'm really tired myself and your EASY routine as you've written it is a bit confusing. At some points it looks as though he's awake for 3 hours? Could you write out again a typical day, starting with the wake up which is the start of the day? Sorry, I know it's a pain.

anna
x

[~Alexa~]

Hi Linda!! Hugs to you!! I know how exhausting this is!! HAng in there!!

Your LO is 10 weeks old, so he should be on a 3 hr routine.  You should feed him every 3 hours.  Sometimes this may be hard, but this is a flexible routine, so if some days you feed him before, it is ok. 
LOs sort their nights from 0-3 months, and the daysleep is sorted out from 3-6 months, so it is normal that daysleep is harder!!

Have you elevated his mattress?? He has reflux, so may be this could be the reason why he doesn't like to sleep in his crib.

Here's a link with the A times babies can handle according to age. 
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64158.0

Your LO is taking 30 min naps, which usually means OT, so try to begin your wd routine 20 min before his sleeptime so that your LO doesn't get OT.  Use the shpat method for helping him go to sleep, but don't let him fall asleep on your arms.  Transfer him to his cot drowsy, but awake, and continue shpatting until he falls asleep.  My LO has reflux too, and he hated the patting on his back because this makes the milk come up his esophagus, so instead, I pat his bun.  Experiment with different things and see what works for him. 

You said you have tried shpat and pu/pd, but remember pu/pd is for older babies, so instead, try using shpat.  If you are using it, how are you doing it?
Here's a link that talks about it. 
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=26672.0

Hope this helps you!!
Alexa

[LindyLou71]

Hi - Today was the same 30 min nap but here goes

E - 8 am *he was awake at 7:30
A - staring at white shutters, and a light
S - 8:45 to 9:15
E - 10:30 - his cues
A - Not much he was yawning right away
S - 11:45 - 12:15 * I did errands with him at this point and he slept off and on 1 hour
E - 2 pm
A - I chilled with him on my bed - 1st signs of sleepy off to swaddle, and a song and to bed
S - I don't remember the time - it was for 30 mins

Basically he can sleep on his own, but only lasts 30 mins at naptime.  I am exhausted.  I even kept him on me to see what happens - he just kinda rolls his eyes - grunts a bit and is awake in the morning he doesn't cry but the afternoon he is exhausted and just cries  I am going insane.  Why doesn't he go beyond 30 mins??  The sh/pat is laughable he either just smiles at me or looks around.   He is so overtired by the afternoon he is miserable and I am embarassed to even go out anymore.  I am trying so hard.  During his last feed at 5:30 he could barely keep his eyes open and I didn't have the energy to put him in his crib so I put him in his carseat, he woke up at 30 mins and cried not frantic just whimpering I let him go and he is back to sleep...I have tried this in his crib but he doesn't go back to sleep.  I feel so bad for him but I am getting really frustrated.  

Bottom line - at night he goes 4 hours w/o waking
Naps - 30 mins TOPS.  
Wakefulness: I try to get him down within 1-1.5 hours of feeding.  I am confused though b/c if he eats at 8 (3 hour easy) goes down for 9 then is up at 9:30, or if I sh/pat for 30 mins  his next feed should be 11 but then he would be awake from 9:30/10 until after his next feed?  *he has reflux he takes awhile to eat say 20-30 mins then we keep him upright for 20 mins and do a few burps b/c otherwise it comes back up* Maybe he is OT so what do I do with the 30 min naps? and too much wakeful time and 3 hour EASY???

Linda