Author Topic: 11 month old daughter cant sleep without me  (Read 2456 times)

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Offline zombielau

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11 month old daughter cant sleep without me
« on: January 30, 2009, 10:30:46 am »
Help my 11 month old daughter is so cuddly she cant sleep longer than an hour without wanting to be cuddled by me - not her dad, not just a quick pick up put down but a proper cuddle ALL NIGHT. Before anyone says 'oh you shouldnt of started bringing her into your bed- bad habit' -when you have had no more than an hours uninterupted sleep since she was born you do anything to get some and actually i do enjoy the closeness we have but the beds not exactly big enough for the 3 of us!!! I have bought a side cot to put next to our bed- when she 1st goes to sleep i put her in her own cot (yes another 1 in her own room) and if we're lucky she may go an hour without waking up (shes always been the same) then i try to get her to sleep again but usually after another hour or so she wont settle unless she comes in to our room and in our bed (which means i have to go to bed earlier than wanted) But she stil roles over and puts her hand over me and cuddles into my chest. Ive tried dolls and blankets and teddies for her to cuddle - even putting my clothes in her cot so it smells of me but shes not stupid and nothing will do but me. Its as if she needs to be protected and be next to something she all confined. If i can get her to just sleep in the side cot near me we'd all be fine and not roll over to be with me all the time, does anyone have any ideas or is there something i can buy for her??? Its very hard to sleep on your back with your arm round someone and not be able to really move!!!
thankyou
a desperate laura!!
ps. i tried all the pickup methods and the crying ones  - she would vomit thro so much crying and personally i dont think thats fair. so no more methods please !!!

Offline anna*

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Re: 11 month old daughter cant sleep without me
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2009, 10:46:38 am »
It sounds as though you have become a prop for your daughter and she doesn't know how to sleep unless she in your arms. I think you have two choices, really. Either to carry on co-sleeping and cuddling through the night, as you are doing, or teach her to sleep independently. I'm afraid to say that teaching independent sleep will, especially at this age, inevitably involve a lot of crying. The BW methods are different from controlled crying (CC) or crying it out (CIO) because you do not leave your baby to cry alone, but they still do usually involve a lot of crying when changing sleep habits.

anna
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Offline Mashi

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Re: 11 month old daughter cant sleep without me
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2009, 11:07:39 am »
I suggest the "No Cry Sleep Solution" by Elizabeth Pantley.  Her way is the "Gradual Withdrawl" method (also called "gentle removal") and there are links in the props section of this site that give a very basic outline of how it works.  Basically, she would say to move an inch or two further away every few nights.  Put a mattress on the floor in her room.  Move a bit more and a bit more through the night.  Eventually move her into her crib, and you sleep on a mattress on the floor in her room. then move the mattress farther from her crib, a bit more every few nights. eventually she will get used to it. it will take TIME but it is a gentle way that doesn't involve crying.  you just go slowly at a pace that your DD can handle.

we are in a similar situation here - i started bringing DS to bed at 5am, then it was 4, then after a while 2am, etc etc.  now there are nights i just put him in bed from the start. it's been two weeks now and it's already a hard habit to break, so we decided this weekend is the end!   i understand about the cuddling -- DS needs to be SOOOO close to me that i swear he wants back IN me!!

Offline zombielau

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Re: 11 month old daughter cant sleep without me
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2009, 11:28:08 am »
thankyou for your help! i think i will try the no cry sleep solution (i think ive actually got her book somewhere!) - i must of bought about 5 books in desperation but didnt no which one to follow!! i do try to keep on moving dd back into her cot so i can spread out a little more and because shes fast asleep she stays there untill the next restless moment when she comes back again !! shes even taken to sleeping inbetween where her cot and our bed join and im worried she'l get stuck or even suffercate - i think she does it because of the closeness and the confined space of the mattress next to her skin! (im gonna see if i can stuff something down inbetween so she wont get in there (not that she could actually fall thro but because her mattress is lower than ours theres a difference)

Offline A pair of Charlies

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Re: 11 month old daughter cant sleep without me
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2009, 13:48:49 pm »
Hi Laura

Hugs honey. That is an awful old time you are having. I've been through similar (not having to cuddle all night) but having to wrap myself around DS's crib while lying in my own bed in an effort to keep him there. Arms, shoulders, elbows and wrists were designed for it - that was my conclusion.

I've just finished sleep training my DS and I thought we would never get there. He slept an inch from me in his crib and usually ended up in bed with me from 5 am onwards. Then both he and I moved to his room, to his floor and over months we've got to a heavenly time of him STTN (in his own bed, his own room, usually resettling himself too AND I get to sleep in MY BED!!!

You've said you don't want any more methods. I can understand that. The screaming, the upset. And it doesnt seem fair. But I do think Anna's right (her honesty steered me well many times!) there's a choice of cuddly co-sleeping, waiting for her to feel secure enough to sleep alone or a sleep training method, tweaked to your needs.

I would never recommend something that I haven't tried (and had success with) my-self. CIO was never an option for me. PUPD just really upsets my DS and not in a condusive to sleep way. WIWO looked to me like there'd be too much upset for a stubborn loving boy. So GW it was. But really really gradual. It took us months. The last 3 weeks (should've been 2 but he got sick so I stalled for a week) were a bit more aggressive and there was crying - but I was with him and I comforted as much as I felt he needed, but working towards an independent sleep goal.

So. If you want, I can tell you in detail what we did, how we did it. It is a long haul (can be quicker but then there's more crying and if she's a loving, please make me safe kind then I'd personally take it slow) and TBH the initial bits are a little easier but take patience and an eye on the prize.  ;)

Let me know if you want to know what we did.

In the meantime, I'll give my big sis a call. She's a co-sleeping Mama. Her first babe was with them until he was 2 and he decided he'd rather sleep in his bed as more room. Her second is 7. And still with her. Her husband sleeps in another room as he can't cope with the little one distrubing his sleep. She may have some good ideas on getting you a more comfortable night's sleep.  :)

 :-* Either way, amongst the BWers we must be able to help you!

Charlotte

Offline A pair of Charlies

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Re: 11 month old daughter cant sleep without me
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2009, 13:56:04 pm »
BTW, Gradual Withdrawl (GW) is pretty much what Mash is explaining and not far off what we did. We just did it a lot slower - starting with gradually doing less close cuddling, then less cuddling then less less less of everything. You can tweak it to how you need it, your own timescales etc.

I'd recommend it not only because I get to sleep in my own bed without constantly waking up worrying about douvets or uncomfortable because wrapping myself through and around cot bars BUT because since he could go to sleep by himself in his cot without me in the room, he has become a much happier, self-assured, confident boy. It really kicked the sep angst issues we'd been having out the door!  ;D

Offline zombielau

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Re: 11 month old daughter cant sleep without me
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2009, 11:54:23 am »
your right i do need a plan ! i try waiting until shes back asleep and move her again to her cot but it doesnt last long until shes awake again! how can i do that gradually? i try putting my arm round her and she cuddles into my chest and that seems the only position she feels comfortable in. Please tell me how i can put my plan in practise!! Every detail helps!!
thankyou xx

Offline A pair of Charlies

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Re: 11 month old daughter cant sleep without me
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2009, 16:55:27 pm »
Want a plan ?

Offline A pair of Charlies

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Re: 11 month old daughter cant sleep without me
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2009, 22:03:34 pm »
Hi

Right then. A plan. I'm assuming you want a gradual withdrawl approach with as little crying as possible? I've sent you the plan I used which took us a couple of weeks before we got independent sleep. As I mentioned in my previous post, I did some gentle gradual withdrawl before we started a proper gradual withdrawl plan so that it wouldn't seem so hard on DS.

Where we started: Having to hold his hand or have my hand against his cheek or stroke his head til he was asleep ... and then when he woke, he couldn't get back to sleep without this. At one point, I had both arms through the crib bars to soothe him while he slept. So here's what we did:

 * Each sleep, do a little less of what you do to help him to sleep, so he does a little more. For instance, just as he was drifting off to sleep I would gradually move my hand away. If he woke, I'd comfort again as before but move my hand away again...until he could get to sleep without my hand there. And then I would begin to withdraw it a little sooner each time so that he would do more of the 'going to sleep' unassisted by my hand or anything. Until I could lay him in his bed, brief comfort, and he would go to sleep. But I was still a sleep prop. I had to be there and if I wasn't, he couldn't go to sleep. Cue the GW plan over 2 weeks.

 * I moved him from his crib an inch from me in my bed and into his own room. But I didn't just leave him there - it's a new place and he doesn't 'know' it's safe like I do. It's new, can be scary and isn't what he's used to. So I moved with him. I made myself a bed on his floor (lay on a douvet, wrapped myself in another douvet). Not all that comfortable, but I felt it necessary. I wouldn't like to dumped in another room and if anything in my DS's shoes, I'd feel I'd been abandoned / done something wrong. And that's not going to help him sleep.

So, sleeping on the floor. For naps and the night. I would lay him down, say 'time to sleep', the usual comfort and then I would lie down next to him. I would ignore his standing up as much as possible. I would pat his mattress where his head should be, and say 'time to sleep'. I would comfort as necessary but always trying to make sure that he went to sleep without me doing anything except being there. For 2 days, we napped together and slept next to eachother (evening was the only time he slept alone). Then I started leaving him for his naps, once he was asleep. I started leaving him in the night too, once he was asleep, but still ended up in there most of the night and would wake up there to start our day. After a week, I made every effort to get up and leave him once he was asleep in the night so he would get used to me not being there.

At this point, I felt ready to implement proper GW: he was used to his room and he could sleep without me physically helping him. So now it was just me that needed removing from the picture. The GW was pretty straightforward. I think it was 4 days of being by his bed (not me lying down though), and getting him to lie down and go to sleep. There was a lot of crying because it was different and not what he was used to. Babies and change. The third night was better than the first and second. I did this at all naps and bedtime, but for us, bedtime is usually the tougher to get him to sleep. Naps he usually is asleep as soon as he gets in bed!

Over these first 4 days or so, I was doing less each time. I would lay him down less (I try to avoid this anyway because it's just a jack-in-the-box thing that winds him up), I would comfort less physically and use my voice more, and try to leave a longer time between my speaking (a song track for instance). Each time trying to do less. I would only comfort him when he lay down after day 2 I think.

Then 3 days or so of sitting in the middle of the room: starting at his cot, but then moving back a little whenever he settled down. I would crawl forwards on my hands and knees to pat his mattress, stroke his head and say 'good boy' when he lay down, but I always moved back to my spot. Gradually over the days, I kept moving away a little further towards the door.

Then another few days later, once at the door, I would just reassure by my being there and my voice. I wouldn't go over to him until absolutely necessary. Once he could get to sleep without me doing anything, I tried to say nothing at all. This didn't work to well for us.

Another few days and I'm in the doorway (door half open with me on the other side but my head could be seen)...gradually moving further through the door. Then another few days on the other side of the door with it pulled a little more closed (open enough for me to poke my head through to speak to him and reassure (and be seen!).

And then -da di di da da dahhhhhhh - lay him down, say time to sleep, leave the room (I always keep the door half open until he's asleep) and I would potter around upstairs while he got himself to sleep. I have to reassure him often with my voice, occasionally I pop my head around his door, but I leave again and he settles himself down.

That's it. Long winded. Sorry.

Other things I did.

 * play music throughout all naps and all through the night. The same thing on loop. Very annoying through the monitor.
 * made his room a little lighter so he can see to lie down, see the room and feel a little safer
 * leave a light on in another room upstairs (seems to help him)
 * make it his room: he plays in there (not with exciting toys, just exploring) when he gets up from naps, before his bath etc. He knows where everything is. I think it helps them feel safer in their surroundings.
 * I don't leave him to cry. If he mantras (only did this once he could sleep independently), I will reassure with my voice or pop my head around his door IF he hasn't settled within a minute. I don't linger; just reassure and then I get off (usually close by) while I listen to how he's doing. Real cry: I don't leave him to cry and resettle. If he cries for help, I go in and assess the situation. If he's still ready for sleep, I kiss his head, stroke his cheek and tell him 'time to sleep'. I might pat his mattress or something to get him to lie down. I stay with him until he is calm and back in the zone. If very upset, I stay with him until he goes to sleep and then leave. Unless I'm getting him up because he's ill or something (hence the assess). We tried leaving him to cry for 5-10 mins when he woke. It was awful. He got hysterical and was really hard to settle. I think he thought something was wrong and understandably, at that point he wants to be with mummy not left alone in a room.
 * a lovie: he hadn't taken to one so I sort of forced one. I bought something relatively small but soft and cuddly. It is everywhere he needs to sleep (2 in his bed; 1 in car seat, 1 in pram). I bought loads of them, machine washable and cheap. Plenty of replacements. Before they make it into use (after a wash), they spend either 2 nights cuddled up with me in bed or a day shoved down my bra (yeh, looks silly but the smell is comforting to him!). In your case, I would start using the lovie straight away and put it in between you when you cuddle etc. Rub the lovie against hand or cheek in high emotion situations - I'm told that helps them take to it.

I warned you it would be long! ;)  Hope this helps. If you have any queries, questions at all, just say. And let me know how you get on!!

Charlotte

Offline A pair of Charlies

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Re: 11 month old daughter cant sleep without me
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2009, 23:04:06 pm »
Me again.  :(

Found this thread on the independent sleep board. Sounds similar so might be worth reading, tracking and possibly marking. http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=141903.0

HTH

Charlotte

Offline anna*

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Re: 11 month old daughter cant sleep without me
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2009, 10:14:41 am »
Fantastic, detailed advice from Charlotte! Really hope this is helpful to you :-*

anna
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Offline A pair of Charlies

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Re: 11 month old daughter cant sleep without me
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2009, 23:15:54 pm »
Hi

Just checking on how you are? If you need us, we're here.

Charlotte