twins not sleeping

[rowena]

can anyone give me some advice please,
i have 14month old twins,boy and girl,they have never slept though the night on a good night they wake approx 6 times on a bad night i can be up about 20 times,
they sleep with dummys and 90% of the time if i put there dummy back in they will go back to sleep,the rest of the time i put them in bed with me and then they sleep,
they wake at different times during the night but if i dont get to the one whos woke up quick enough then they wake the other,i moved back in my own room 3 nights ago as ive always slept in there room as it was easyer but i thought it was about time i moved back in my room,
if anyone has any sergestions i would love to here them as am really tired now,
thanks

[Purplecattypants]

Hi there and welcome to BW 

As your lo's are over a year I am moving this to Toddler Sleep, you should get the help you need there 

[rowena]

thank you

[Purplecattypants]

Not sure I can be of much help personally, but if you post your routine for us, including length of naps etc, then that will help.

Can they not put the dummys back in themselves yet?

[rowena]

hi,
there routine is,
go down stairs at 7am,
breakfast at 7,30,
play
snack at 10am,
play
dinner at 11,45
nap at 12,15,4 approx 1 hr 30 mins
drink and snack at 2,30
play
tea at 4pm
play
bath at 6pm
drink of milk at 6,30
play untill bed
bed between 7,15 and 7,45
they have to rocked to sleep which normal takes 5 mins each

[Purplecattypants]

It woudl appear you have a prop problem.....both in the dummy and the rocking. If they cannot get to sleep without either of these, then they cannot transition between sleep cycles on their own or get themselves back to sleep without them.

For children this age you can choose your method of sleep training. Take a look here and see what you think: http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=80750.0

[Vicku]

Agree with Angela, it seems that they are dependant on either you putting the dummy back in or being rocked to go to sleep. It must be hard when one wakes and that wakes the other if you don't get to them in time. Unfortunately your quick response has probably made them dependant on just that   a tough situation. Have a look at the links Angela posted, and let us know what you think would be best for you and your toddlers. If you decide to go ahead and do some sleep training with them, do you have anybody who can help you?

[rowena]

thanks,i had a look at the link two days ago,
i have been putting them down 4 there nap and night time with out rocking them,
i leave them after tucking them in 4 5mins,they both screem like mad when i go back in after 5mins reece is asleep but ella is standing up screeming her head off,i lie her back down,if i go to walk away she goes mental so now instead of picking her up i stand there and stroke her head till she goes sleep,
in the night there still waking up but i am leaving them a few mins and most of the time reece will go back of without me going in,
ella is a bit of a nightmare shes waking around midnight and about 5am going mental,instead of taking her to my bed i am standing over her for about 20mins stroking her head till she goes back to sleep,
its killing me but i dont want them to be in my bed all the time,
my only worry is will i be strokeing ellas head for the next yr to get her of to sleep.

there is only me,my 13yr son does help if needed but ive told him that am fine in the night,so he can get his sleep,
my husband was here for just over the 1st yr,but he never helped with the babies that was my job,
i dont mind getting up to them,i would just love one night of full sleep,14 months is a long time.

[mum101]

don't worry too much about the stroking of ella's head becoming a prop too. It is something you can gradually withdraw. So you can do it for 20 minutes until asleep at the beginning, then after a few days or such you can slow down the rubbing, then gradually get shorter and shorter times, so she's just used to you rubbing a little, then gently pulling away.

HUGS, hoping you get some sleep soon. 

[rowena]

thanks,i will see how it goes

[rowena]

hi,i need your advice again,
2 nights ago i put them down said goodnight and walked out,i went back after 5mins reece was fast asleep and ella was screeming,
i put her dummy back in and stroked her head for 10 mins and she went to sleep,reece slept all night 4 the 1st time without waking,ella woke up 5 times,every time i went in put her dummy in and stroked her head,within 5 mins every time she was asleep,they then woke up at 6,10 i left them in there room with the tv on and toys then took them downstairs at 7am like normal,

last night i put them to bed as normal reece fell 2 sleep on his own,it took 10 mins stroking ellas head b4 she went to sleep,she woke up 2 times and i stroked her head and she went back to sleep after 10mins,
then at 2am she woke up screeming,i went in put her dummy back in and stroked her head after 25mins she was just looking at me kicking her legs,
i was so tired i thought i cant do this,i didnt want to put her in my bed as they have stayed in there cots now for 4 nights,
i walked away as soon as i took my hand away she started screeming,i was worried she would wake reece but he stayed asleep,(the 1st time ever while shes been crying),i went in my room and layed on the bed after 5 mins i went back in she was screeming like mad,
i put her dummy  back in and started stroking her head again,
i did this for 15 mins all the time i did this she was staring at me and she kept taking her dummy out herself and would cry till i put it back in,i was so tired my eyes were watering,
so after the 15 mins i left her,as soon as i took my hand away she screemed,i went back in my room she screemed like mad but again reece didnt wake up,after 7 mins she went quite i left it a couple of mins then i went back in just to check she was ok and to cover her up as she always stands up when she crys,
she was lieing on her front as soon as i got near she looked at me and started crying again,i just put her straight in her cot then walked out again,within 5 mins shed gone quite again,i left it 10 mins then went back in and covered her up,
i never heard nothing again till they woke up at 7,20am,
now i dont no what to do,now reece isnt waking up while she crys do i just leave her to cry herself to sleep when she wakes or do i keep trying to stroke her head till she falls asleep,

[deckchariot]

please don't leave her to just cry herself to sleep.  BW really supports teaching your child how to self soothe, and leaving her to CIO doesn't really teach her that and can cause a break in the bond of trust between the two of you.  She's had over a year of needing you to help her go to sleep, and she's just having hard time figuring out the new way to go to sleep.  You've done such great work with them to get them weaned off you for sleeping - and Reece seems to have caught on straight away.  Ella will catch on too - I would keep doing the stroking of her head until you reach a point where there's no screaming if you stroke her head and she goes to sleep fine, then you can gradually withdraw the amount of stroking that you do - the time that you spend, til she also no longer needs you to go to sleep.

Hang in there - I know it's hard - but you are doing great!!

hth
michelle

[rowena]

hi,
last night i put them both down at 7pm,i tucked them in and gave them there ummys and said good night,i walked out and they both started crying,i went back in 5 mins later and to my surprise they were both asleep,i put there covers on and left them,i checked on them b4 i went bed and thhey were both fast asleep,i went to bed expecting to be up very soon with ella,
at 3 am reece woke up moaning not crying so i went in and put his dummy in and he went straight back 2 sleep,to my surprise ella was still fast asleep,
reece did the same at 5am i put his dummy back in and he went straight back to sleep,ella was still asleep,
they both woke up at 6,15am,i put there tv on and gave them there toys then brought them down stairs at 7am as normal,
i dont no y she slept all night but it was nice and i dont no if it was a one of or not,

[deckchariot]

well that definitely seems like an improvement!!!  I'm wondering about the dummy issue though - can they not replug themselves when they wake in the night?  I'm concerned that if you keep re-plugging them, they still will not really learn how to sleep independently - because they're not really learning how to put themselves back to sleep.  do you plan to wean off of that as well?

[Peek-a-boo]

Hun, you are making great progress!!    I agree with Michelle that they need to quit relying on you for dummy replugging.  TBH, I'd probably ditch the dummy altogether. 

If you're reluctant to remove the dummy altogether, at this age it seems like they should be able to replug themselves--in which case it wouldn't be a prop any more.  Have you tried putting scattering a bunch of dummys around the crib so they are more likely to find one in the middle of the night?  Perhaps start the night by handing them the dummies, but leaving it to them to put it in . . .