Author Topic: EW back again, 16 month old - and I'm back at work argh!!!  (Read 4959 times)

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Offline EloysH

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EW back again, 16 month old - and I'm back at work argh!!!
« on: February 24, 2009, 01:58:33 am »
Help!

Jarrah has been waking around 5:30am for the past 2 weeks or more.  Early bedtime doesn't work he just wakes earlier cause he won't sleep more than 11 hours at night. At the mo he's only sleeping 10.5 hours.

He has been on one nap since 10 months old. We've been operating on this routine below (without the EW) since he was about 12 monthls old. So it has been very stable. He's an independelt sleeper.

We've had EW's in the past but we were also implementing early bedtime... the EW magically went away after daylight savings kicked in and the routine moved forward an hour.

Wake 6:30am  (for the past few weeks 5:30am)
Nap: 11:00am  (now is tired buy 10:00am - 10:30am)
Bed: 7pm  (now tired by 5:30 - 6pm, alot of distraction required)

We have been trying hard to give him two naps but it's not working. He's tired enough by 5:30pm though, but we have thought this is too late for  nap.  I really feel the need to do something about these EW's as we have been waiting for them to go away, thinking when he got his teeth he'd stop waking.  But we've ridden through one molar and are at a slight lull in the teething (got a lump waiting for molar 2), and the EW's are still here.

What do you think of this crazy plan:
Wake 5:30am
Nap when tired say 10:00am
Nap 5:30pm when tired (wake him up 45 mins later)
Bedtime 8:00pm

I an hoping the later bedtime will force him to sleep in.  In the past we've only tried it for one day and given up as he woke at 5:30am and was sooooo OT we felt sorry for him.  What if we do this for 3 days and see what happens?  What will I do if he wakes at 5:30am for 3 days and is soooo OT?



Offline *Natasha*

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Re: EW back again, 16 month old - and I'm back at work argh!!!
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2009, 22:41:07 pm »
How long is he napping for?

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Offline EloysH

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Re: EW back again, 16 month old - and I'm back at work argh!!!
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2009, 23:50:56 pm »
For the past month he  has been napping 1.5 hours, occasionally 2 hours.  So usually he gets 11 hours at night and 1.5 - 2 hours in the day.

But now since EW, its 10 hours at night and 1.5 hours in the day.


Offline *Natasha*

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Re: EW back again, 16 month old - and I'm back at work argh!!!
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2009, 00:10:24 am »
Teething?
Any new milestones like walking?
Have you tried WI/WO to get him to go back to sleep when waking early?

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Offline EloysH

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Re: EW back again, 16 month old - and I'm back at work argh!!!
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2009, 06:45:24 am »
Teething - yes but not cutting a tooth, just waiting for a lump to come down..  see post  below for details

no miletones, been walking for months and talking is progressing along nothing major

yes tried Wi/WO  he just becomes genuinely awake and hysterical, we try for 20 mins or so.  Most of the time he has done a poo so we get himn up.  poo.  A few times he has fallen back to sleep for 15 mins or so.

Offline EloysH

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Re: EW back again, 16 month old - and I'm back at work argh!!!
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2009, 00:13:25 am »
so I am also thinking of just pushing his routine out by half an hour to see if I can shirt the wake-up time.  The only problem with this is it does not allow him to catch up on OT sleep (unless he makes it up with a long daytime nap).

Offline sherry lynn

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Re: EW back again, 16 month old - and I'm back at work argh!!!
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2009, 02:03:02 am »
Eloys - I think that idea is a lot better than the catnap idea. He probably won't take the catnap anyways. And I started having issues of the second nap robbing from the nighttime sleep, regardless of how long the second nap was. I think pushing that nap forward might help. Before the whole nap craziness did he used to have a bedtime of 7:30?
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Offline Julie C

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Re: EW back again, 16 month old - and I'm back at work argh!!!
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2009, 02:30:33 am »
When our DD just turned 16 months, we also had EW like this. This is what worked for us.

Not letting her nap until 12:30 (ok the first day we cheated, and let her snooze for about 20 mins in the car at around 10am because she had gotten up at 5am. We woke her up and then put her down for a real nap at about 12:45. She slept 1. 5 hours).

Moving her bedtime to 7:30 (from 7pm). She was really tired, but it worked like magic on the second day.

We got about 3 weeks of wonderful sleep -- until she got sick. BLAH!!! (It never ends!!!)


Offline EloysH

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Re: EW back again, 16 month old - and I'm back at work argh!!!
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2009, 04:46:10 am »
Sher, Julie thanks, thats the feedback I need.  So today I put him down at 12pm and he was soo OT, only slept 1 hour. Will see if I can keep him up till 7:30pm.

Yes Sher, I agree pn the afternoon nap thing too.  Catnaps have never owrked for us anyway, so I was a bit dubious about it and there's no way I want the night time sleep robbeed, he's not getting enough as is! Bedtime has always been 7pm.   So maybe time to move later.

Juile: awesome to hear that this worked for you too. Was DD getting less night time sleep when the EW's started?  In hindsight what do you think was going on?

Offline sherry lynn

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Re: EW back again, 16 month old - and I'm back at work argh!!!
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2009, 12:47:59 pm »
Eloise - is Jarah spirited, I'm thinking he is. I'm having trouble remembering though.
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Offline EloysH

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Re: EW back again, 16 month old - and I'm back at work argh!!!
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2009, 20:41:50 pm »
Hi Sher,

jarrah is y  ;) but very intense. 

So we had 6:30am wake-up today!   I moved everything half hour later, nap and bedtime and he's slept in!  He also only had a one hour nap so I think that helped, he caught on on that lost sleep.


Watch this space.  Will see what happens tomorrow.

Offline EloysH

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Re: EW back again, 16 month old - and I'm back at work argh!!!
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2009, 00:32:49 am »
Sher, that was supposed to read y"  (as in the book's definition) not messy!!

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Re: EW back again, 16 month old - and I'm back at work argh!!!
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2009, 01:24:26 am »
Eloise, I meant to pop on here earlier in the week and then we had sleep issues and my brain melted down  ::)

I like your idea of pushing the nap back instead of doing the nap and catnap.  I am glad it is working out well so far.  I know Angela pushed the nap back as well because Z wasn't sleeping very well either.  She found that even if she didn't take a long nap at least it was late enough in the day to get her to bed time, kwim?




Offline sherry lynn

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Re: EW back again, 16 month old - and I'm back at work argh!!!
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2009, 01:47:15 am »
Eloise for some reason it won't let you say that word, I'm been trying to figure out a way to get it to print but I give up. I know what word you are trying to say from the spirited board.
I'm so so so so so pleased to hear that it worked. I was so worried that he would be OT that he would still wake up early. I am also proud to announce that we also got a 6:30 wake up this morning. First one in quite a while. Lyle was OT tonight though. Woke very briefly 30 minutes after going down tonight. So I hope this isn't all catching up with him. But things are much better than they were.
So he did 11 hours last night?
What are you going to limit his daytime sleep to?
« Last Edit: February 28, 2009, 01:50:29 am by sherry lynn »
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Offline EloysH

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Re: EW back again, 16 month old - and I'm back at work argh!!!
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2009, 08:08:13 am »
Natalie: thanks for popping in. Yeah IKWYM on the later nap. We got a ways to go to push it later, I am thinking cause Jarrah has been on one nap for so many months, that I will need to keep pushing it a later later every month or two or else we'll be stauck with ealry wakings again.

SherryLyn: wierd about the word not being allowed!     Yay on the 6;30am wake-up.  Awesome, to wake with dawn as opposed to night time eh!
So Jarrah did 11 hours last night.      I won't cut the naps unless I have to, I will wait to see.  I have found his naps are overall shorter these days,  today 1.5 hours from 12pm. 

Fingers crossed for tomorrow.

Offline sherry lynn

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Re: EW back again, 16 month old - and I'm back at work argh!!!
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2009, 19:54:38 pm »
Good luck :)  Hope it keeps up for you.

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Offline nolejen

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Re: EW back again, 16 month old - and I'm back at work argh!!!
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2009, 22:22:19 pm »
I wonder if this would work with Jared. He is will be 18 months on Monday and we are now getting EWs.

Can you tell me how you are doing this? J in the past has woken up at 6-6:30 regardless of what time he went to bed. That is why we did the 7pm bedtime. Now that he is getting up at 5, I am afraid he will go to bed at 7:30 but wake up at 5. Then we will really have an OT kiddo.

Offline EloysH

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Re: EW back again, 16 month old - and I'm back at work argh!!!
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2009, 00:16:15 am »
Day 2:  Wake-up 6am!   (he actually woke at 5;15am then went back to sleep!, its a first!)  Bedtime and nap times yesterday were half an hour later than usual.    So 12pm and 7:30pm.
Fingers crossed that it keeps working!!   

Nolejen:   I think that you are supposed to move the whole routine later in 15 mins increments, but I just went the whole half hour on the first day.   The minha reason it took me so long to give it a go was the same fears that you have about OT and it not working.  We got the to point where we had to do something (the clocks are going backwards in a month) I could no longer blame the teething and I felt this was the most pain free way to go.     

Offline nolejen

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Re: EW back again, 16 month old - and I'm back at work argh!!!
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2009, 02:47:25 am »
We are giving it a go. He didn't go to bed tonight until 7:15 but wasn't asleep until closer to 7:30. I plan on pushing his nap back some tomorrow.
Hope you keep having success!!

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Re: EW back again, 16 month old - and I'm back at work argh!!!
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2009, 22:58:52 pm »
thanks Nolejen!

Day 4:  wake-up at 6:30am yeah!   Yesterday nap at 11:45am for 1.5 hours and bedtime 7:30pm.
Its working!

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Re: EW back again, 16 month old - and I'm back at work argh!!!
« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2009, 03:12:06 am »
I really think our DD was just getting too much sleep at the wrong times and not enough at the right times. She is back on track even after being sick...napping almost 2 hours after lunch and not showing signs of being tired until 7:30.

Offline sherry lynn

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Re: EW back again, 16 month old - and I'm back at work argh!!!
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2009, 17:21:36 pm »
Yey!!! That is really exciting.
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Re: EW back again, 16 month old - and I'm back at work argh!!!
« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2009, 05:57:57 am »
Good to hear Julie.

So what time is her nap now?

We had nap refusal today I had to resort to the car for a 2pm nap for only 45 mins in car.  I think the third molar is starting to bulge.

So Day 5: we had 6:10am wake-up and he  lay around till 6:45am.  Any wake-up after 6am is good for us.

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Re: EW back again, 16 month old - and I'm back at work argh!!!
« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2009, 17:39:34 pm »
We are the same. Any wake up after 6 is good for us. We got 6:15 today :)

What was Jarrah's behavior before the nap refusal? Did he seem OT or UT. Was he cranky like they are when teething?

Just curious. I hope he can make it to 7:30. Or are you going to put him down a tad earlier since he lost some sleep today?
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Offline nolejen

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Re: EW back again, 16 month old - and I'm back at work argh!!!
« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2009, 19:45:25 pm »
Eloise-just wanted to keep you updated on our progress. So far so good. Jared is now napping for 2 hours (12:30-2:30) and goes down at 7:30, with a fight though. But he is sleeping through the night (knock on wood) and this morning had a 7am wake up. YAY!!! Here is hoping!!

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Re: EW back again, 16 month old - and I'm back at work argh!!!
« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2009, 20:38:01 pm »
oh my goodness! that is fantastic!  We have never achieved anything past 6:30am yet. His nap is still 12:00pm though.  Maybe I can try and push it a little.  We've also got the clocks winding back in three weeks so I need to do it anyway.      What was your bedtime before you started this?

Sher, I ended up putting him down at 7pm, (asleep within minutes) he couldn't last till 7:30pm. He slept till 6:15am - yeah!
It was strange yesterday.  He was so happy until naptime. We were out the whole time, maybe because he was distracted when we were out. He wasn't cranky or anything the whole morning. It was a dream morning. Then at naptime 12pm started chewing on his teeth with dummy and crying, pointing to the door wanting out. Whewn I did WI/WO he quickly escalated to extreme distress. So I thought either UT or teeth.    Then by 1:00pm he become OT and also was chewing his hand alot..    It's hard to tell. 


Offline sherry lynn

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Re: EW back again, 16 month old - and I'm back at work argh!!!
« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2009, 01:50:50 am »
Yeah, nap refusals are always hard to tell here as well. For nap times it usually takes us 1 hour of WI/WO, no joke. So I only do it in extreme cases as well. I would have opted for the car also.

Nolejen- If you keep getting a battle at bedtime it might be worth it to go ahead and up the A time and see if he can handle it. Spirited LO sometimes need long A times before bed. Just a thought. That is great news though. Very encouraging. I think after this you might be able to tackle the bedtime.

Eloise - how is work going? I just saw the title of this thread again, and I realized I haven't heard how work is going on the BC or anything.

So I had a question. I'm wondering if pushing out the nap time would help us as well. But Lyle is really hard to push routine wise. So I'm really wondering how often and quickly I can push up the A time? Any thoughts? I know 15 minutes every 3 days would be way too much. But we do need to balance out the A times. We are currently doing
wake 5:45-6:15
Nap around 11/11:15ish to 1/1:15ish
Bed 7:00

Today I put him in early because he was so out of sorts. Went to bed with no fuss. Even if we get an early start I figure that's better than him having a restless night.
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Re: EW back again, 16 month old - and I'm back at work argh!!!
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2009, 02:21:56 am »
Hi Sher,

I think you are right to start pushing out the nap time a Little. It may help with the EW's who knows?  Jarrah copes quite well with 1/2 hour changes to his routine, he's not so spirited in that way.   For instance today:  ( As I wrote on Charms thread)  I waited for clear tiredness before I put him down for the nap and he wasn't tired till 12:30. He is now soundly asleep at 1pm with no dramas!     

Maybe you could just tend towards 11:15am alot more often than 11:00 am? Sounds like you're getting great nap length so I wouldn't want to mess with it too much.  I did notice a shortening of J's naps over the past few months and we were stuck on 11am nap for a very long time. So that (alone) was an indication that a later nap time was required.  Not forgetting the EW's adding to the case also.

So I am thinking that yesterdays attempt to get him down at 12pm was UT.

On the work situation, it's going really well. I am enjoying being able to drink a cup of tea before it goes cold and concentrate on a task for more than 10 mins.   It's only one day a week, and J is very happy being with my Mum.  He doesn't even cry when I leave or  want to cuddle when I get home  :(   ;)  but having said that EW's were a killer when you need your wits about you at work!  That's why I was driven to try something new to combat the EW's, I'm glad I did, cause this is working out really well!

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Re: EW back again, 16 month old - and I'm back at work argh!!!
« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2009, 02:29:26 am »
At this point I can't even imagine what going to work would feel like. Having said that I tried to find my teaching certificate a few days ago, and I couldn't find it. That's so unlike me. But everything does change when you have a LO. Now I have to call the HR department. Sigh. Oh well. The state's not even hiring this year because of the economic issues.

Today's nap wasn't so great, we had a lot of stirring and what not. So he was OT. So I'll give it a few more days to see if I think he can handle a longer A time. Thanks for the encouragement though. I'm sure I'll be asking for some more soon.
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Offline *Natasha*

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Re: EW back again, 16 month old - and I'm back at work argh!!!
« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2009, 02:36:28 am »
Though this might be helpful to you ladies with EWing issues:

"Aah! The million dollar question! At what point is it reasonable to expect your child will sleep until a more respectable hour in the morning? When can you kiss the sunrise goodbye?

First, (and sadly for some) every child is different and your child may just be a naturally early riser. For these children, try one the following strategies which may allow you to have an extra half hour's sleep-in:

    * Put a clock beside her bed and either teach her the basics of telling the time, or draw her a picture of what the clock face looks like when he's allowed to get up.
    * Provide him with some quiet entertainment that may encourage him to stay in bed - a few action figures, a book or two, a join-the-dots activity.
    * If she does want to get out of bed, make sure she knows what the house rules are.
    * If he's starving when he wakes up, you may just have to get up to give him breakfast - although some children love to get their own bowl of cereal if you leave everything out that they need and put the milk in a small jug in the fridge.
    * Make sure that his room stays dark. There's nothing faster at waking a slumbering child than the sun streaming into his room. If his room captures all the morning light, make sure that the window coverings are heavy. You could try adding a 100% block-out lining to the existing curtains, or put up a set of curtains over a blind.
    * Don't expect her to go to bed early and sleep late. Most pre-schoolers need between 10-12 hours of sleep at night, so if she's still keeping the bedtime of his babyhood - asleep at 7pm - you probably have to expect that she will wake early. Perhaps try making his bedtime a little later to encourage a later start to the day.
    * Keep the house quiet. Once upon a time, your child slept on through all sorts of household noise. Those days are long gone, so if you or your partner has to get up early, try pulling his door closed and keeping noise to a minimum.
    * Try to encourage him to have a morning stretch in bed each day. If your child is in the habit of bouncing out of bed the second his eyes open, he'll never learn the joys of a sleep-in, but if he wakes to some quiet time in bed he may occasionally roll over and drift off again.

How to shift bedtime:

If you decide that the key to a more reasonable waking time is to shift your child's bedtime to a little later, try this:

    * Your child will adjust to the move easiest if you change his bedtime in small increments. Try moving it by quarter of an hour at a time.
    * Sleep rhythms can take a week or two to change (just think about how long it takes to adjust to daylight saving each year) so expect it to take a couple of weeks before you see any change to his sleep patterns in the morning.
    * Once you've settled into the 15 minute change, try another 15 minutes. Keep going until you reach a bed time that is appropriate for your child. "

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Offline Julie C

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Re: EW back again, 16 month old - and I'm back at work argh!!!
« Reply #30 on: March 07, 2009, 02:49:16 am »
Funny...we're doing all this work, and now the clocks are being put an hour ahead this weekend. lol!

Offline EloysH

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Re: EW back again, 16 month old - and I'm back at work argh!!!
« Reply #31 on: March 07, 2009, 23:23:48 pm »
We're going an hour back in two weeks eek!

So we're still getting decent wake-ups yeah!   So we've had 6:45am two days in a row!!!  and no earlier than 6am in the past week!
Natime now at 12:00pm - 12:30pm and bedtime 7:30pm.  It's working a dream.   We will keep pushing a little later cause the clocks are going to set us back again.

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Re: EW back again, 16 month old - and I'm back at work argh!!!
« Reply #32 on: March 08, 2009, 12:52:57 pm »
This is a great thread, thanks for pointing me over here Sherry and Eloise. Stan woke at 5.45 this morning but nap time accidentally managed to be a half hour late (12.30 instead of 12) even before I had read this thread. So I will definitely do a 7.30pm bedtime and cross fingers for a later start tomorrow.





Offline huntersmummyinoz

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Re: EW back again, 16 month old - and I'm back at work argh!!!
« Reply #33 on: March 08, 2009, 13:22:26 pm »
natasha, that's great info! where did you find that goodie?

waving to everyone else :-*