highly spirited and very tired 3yo

[mumplum]

Hi Please help,

I am at my wits end with my highly spirited (and thats putting it mildly!) 3 and a half year old daughter. She finds it so hard to wind down and is still in need of sleep during the day but refuses to sleep or even stay in her room. She will sometimes fall asleep in the car if I drive around and she is delightful when she wakes, often an hour and a half or two but then can't sleep at night until after 9ish. Recently though even on days she hasn't slept she can't get to sleep until then too. On monday she had kindy all day, no nap and was awake until after 10pm, asking for someone to lie with her/she was scared/thirsty etc.

She is really difficult to handle during the day, highly reactive, whingy, teary, disobedient, etc. She has been toilet trained since the age of 2 but is now wetting her pants all the time, refuses to go to the toilet when asked. Maybe I am posting in the wrong section, but I just don't know how to keep sane and calm with her and need help to change things.

Life has been very full on for her and our whole family. Last year we lived with family for 6 months while renovating, we moved back in at the start of January, but still alot unfinished, My older son 6yrs has needed alot of emotional support through being accelerated at school from year one to year 2 (has been identified as highly gifted) and we have a (just turned) one year old daughter too, so she has requireda lot of my time. I think alot of it os a cry for my attention.

Any advice would be so great, Thanks

[Katet]

My 3.75yo finds it really hard to unwind particularly after a day at preschool.
I found it was useless to give him a nap when his brother stopped napping so I gave into my desire to limit TV & put a DVD on... I needed the time & he needed to chill too. Now he actually has found he loves music, so I can get him to listen to the CD DH made that has favourite songs (DH's taste LOL) & he will just chill on his bed & listen to that, but it has been a year long work in progress.
On days he does nap I've learnt if I don't limit to 20mins then I have to accept a late bedtime & the next day is messed up too... so I try to limit naps to Friday - when DH can help me cope with the weekend & Monday when swimming lessons tire him & I can limit that... because my 5yo has just started school I also have found that I need to move Dinner earlier & bedtime, so the family all sitting down for dinner at the same time is on hold because it works better to give them dinner earlier & change the routine than try to keep it & have us all grumpy... I tend to think it is pretty hard to change a child, so if what is happening isn't working for a happy family then change things so it does work... it will keep changing anyway.

Do you read stories to her at bedtime? If she is struggling to unwind after preschool could you find time to sit & talk through her day... I kind of think if 7pm is bedtime & DS isn't asleep by 7.30 (& I know he needs to be) then he needs my help, so I either say "oops I forgot to read your last story, that is why you can't fall asleep" or "looks like someone needs mummy to rub your back". Sometimes I think they do physically need extra help to unwind & much as I don't always feel like it (I've switched off by 7.30pm) I'd rather that than an over tired child the next day KWIM.

[debo620]

Kate,
 that is such a good idea with the listening to music thing for chill out time...I like that...
I also have a very spirited son who at times refuses to nap and when that happens its sooo hard to get him to stay in his room for a rest...perhaps a CD with a few songs on it. would do the trick...

what kind of music do you have on there? Noah loves typical kids music--wheels on the bus for example, but Im not sure this music is restful.

[Deb_in_oz]

hi - i am in a similar position.  dd just turned 4 the other day and for the last 3 weeks has been very difficult, whingy, OT and for once waking in the night and coming to my room and/or  coming out immediately after being put to bed saying "i cannot fal asleep" etc even though it has only been 2 minutes.  all of this is totally new.  the things that happened just prior were moving house and then starting preschool while her big sister started big school (so not seeing her for 5 days a week which was probably the biggest adjustment since they are so close).

anyway - she gave up her nap just before christmas and never went through "rest time" like dd1 did, just nap then no nap... 

things we are doing/did:
1. moved bedtime up from 8pm to 7:30.  several times when i got them to bed between 7:15-7:30 or so both girls had trouble getting to sleep so not always a good match for them even though tired)
2. after many days of the "trouble sleeping" thing (and several horrible nights sleep with her in my bed) we let her move her mattress in with her sister (they shared in the old house) and that has helped about 80% and no sigs of her moving back out after 4 nights so far
3. definitely needs more time with mommy so i agree with your thinking it is about needing 1:1 attention. i am trying to fight through the fact that she is annoying the cr@p out of me (which makes me NOT want to be with her) and spend short bursts of quality time (working on letters/workbook, playing candyland endlessly, talking about kindy...)


also, our kids each have a CD player in their room and after bedtime stories (1 each) they pick out a music or story CD to listen to in bed which helps transition further - might work for you.  that was our change years ago from noise machine to music.

big hugs i know how hard it is!!!!  oh and lots of hugs and kisses to d helps too - physical contact and comfort helps.

[Katet]

Debo620... not sure the music DS2 listens to is restful either his CD has some Bruce Springstein (sp?) & a whole heap of Aussie Rock music... basically all DH's fav music that he has listened to in the car. So not exactly all restful, but DH started with the more upbeat stuff & then the slower stuff when he made the CD for DS2.

I've actually found on our preschool nights (Wed/Thurs) that both boys (including school one) need longer story time than they do Mon/Tues & by Friday, well they get to sit up & watch a movie -which they usually fall asleep watching at 7.30pm... even though they are allowed up until 8pm LOL

We had a god almighty tantrum tonight, DS1 had a swim lesson (last in a block) tonight that finishes at 6pm (too late, but it was 1-1 & they only run them at 5.30pm) & DS2 was exhausted so fought everything tonight, in the end DH took DS2 with him to get petrol for his car & by the time they got back it was past bedtime, but he'd wound down... sometimes you just got to do what you got a do. Can't wait for us to get past the end of the no nap transition.