How often should a 10 week old eat

[kayasmama]

Thanks for writing:) Her day was good. She took 2 good naps and 1 short one and is down for another short one. She was very happy today after her naps.  Because of the long naps, she wasn't hungry before 3 hours and is content after feedings. She only showed hunger cues once at 2 1/2 hrs. It seemed like last night she just couldn't get herself back to sleep when she woke. It was hard to tell OT/UT. I think last night she was UT, but she has a history of OT because of her short naps. She would not fall back asleep even with feedings. I am hoping tonight is better. I was going to go to a 2 1/2 hr schedule today, but it didn't work because she actually slept:) if she wakes again tonight, I might do that.

[A pair of Charlies]

Ahhhh.... okay. So sleeping well during the day might be sacrificing night sleep?

[kayasmama]

Maybe... how can I tell UT from OT? I feel like there is such a fine line with her. She woke twice again last night and was hard to put back down even with feeding so I think I'm going to try to go back to 2 1/2-3 hrs today. I just don't want to take her backwards since she is just accommodating to the 3 hrs during the day and does not seem to want to eat earlier. I am just wondering if it is catching up to her at night.

[kayasmama]

I tried going back to 7 daytime feedings the last 2 days and the first day she only woke once. Last night, she woke again at 230, stayed awake until 4, woke at 5 and 530 and finally at 630. She did not seem hungry after her 230 feeding, and was sleepy when I finally fed her at 7. I am at a loss.

[A pair of Charlies]

Hmmmmm...

Would you be able to post your EASY for us to take a look at? I know your days probably don't feel to standard at the mo but does help give a quick picture of how the day is pulling together.

Also, are the naps still good in the day? Is she an independent sleeper? No sign of teething or other pain? And the feeds: is she taking full feeds during the day at each feeding session? Does she seem content between feedings? Are you feeding from both breasts?

Sorry, lots of questions.    Just trying to understand if she is waking from hunger

Charlotte

[kayasmama]

Here is what yesterday looked like. Today is more of the same.... one 2 hour nap and 2 30 min naps. She has been up for HOURS at a time and just will not sleep.

woke 645
E7-730
A 730-800
S 800-1000
E 1000-1035
A 1035-1125 (took 20 minutes to go to sleep)
S 1125-1215
A 1215-100 crying and would not go back to sleep- refused feed
E 100-130
A 130-200 tried to put her back to sleep during this time but she would not sleep
S 200-235
A 235-315- tried to put her back to sleep during this time
E 315-350
A 350-430
S 430-510 tried to put her back to sleep until 530
A 530-600 bath
E 6-650
S 7-830
E 830 dreamfeed but she woke
S 915-1045
E 1045 dream feed
S 1130-230
E she woke at 230 so I fed her. She was awake from 230-4am
she woke again at 5, 520 and finally at 620.

We shortened up her evening and are doing 2 dream feeds (she won't wake for the 830) since we want to make sure that hunger is not the reason she is waking. I still am not sure. I am single side feeding. She is sometimes so sleepy when she is eating that I am not sure she is feeding well, but she does not seem hungry between feeds. She used to go down for naps much easier on her own and never woke at night unless she hungry, but that does not seem to be as easy now.
Today there have been periods where she has been up for 2 1/2 hours. I am assuming tonight will be the same as last night. I am not sure how we can break this cycle. I feel so bad for her because she is so tired.

[jess, lukeys_mom]

Hi there,

Sorry to hear you guys are getting so little sleep! That being said, it looks like you're doing a really good job and I suspect that shortly she'll be right on track. Babies under 4 months old spend a lot of time sorting out night sleep (there are a few exceptions who get it right off the bat - but mine certainly didn't!!  ). In fact, many babies don't take to the dream feed right off the bat. For my ds, he was almost 4 months before it starting working for him/us (we had to stop it for a while), and by that point we were very, very tired...

One thing I might do if I were you is take a little break from dream feeding her. When I look at your routine and your evenings, that seems to be where things get a little iffy. LO's bodies can usually differentiate between whether it's bedtime or naptime. In your lo's case, in the early evening, I think she is confused about whether it's bedtime, or naptime, or what.

What you need to do is determine that by watching her cues. When you put her down for bed in that 7.00-ish window, see what happens. Does she wake up after an hour or two regularly? Or does she get a very long stretch at this time? If she stretches for a long time, then her body is most likely feeling like it's bedtime. When she wakes again, feed her, put her down again, and see how long she can go again at that point.

This is a temporary variation in routine - a kind of cross between EASY and demand feeding. I have the feeling that once you can get her nighttime rhythms down a little more, then you can start making her bedtime a little more regular and add in a dream feed to hopefully ensure that her longest stretch of sleep is from 10.30 pm-ish onwards.

Hope this helps xxx

[kayasmama]

That makes so much sense. I think when we put her down at 7, it is bedtime for her. She falls right to sleep with any feeding after 6pm, but we would much rather she go to sleep at 7 to get closer to the df. She will sleep until we df at 10 or 1030 but we have been trying to sneak in the 830 to sneak in one more feeding. So we should just let her go to the 1030 df (she takes a lot at this feeding)? We have been going back and forth between keeping her on 3 hours or shorten up her late afternoon evening to 2 1/2 to get in 7 daytime feedings(including df) but maybe that is just confusing her.
We did not do the dream feed a couple of nights last week to see what she would do. She ate arpund 615pm, 930, 1230am and 430am although the 430 was a shorter feed. Again, this was a day where we shortened the afternoon and evening spacing.  Based on that, do you think we still need to shorten up her evening? The evenings are even confusing for us right now, because we are not sure when bed and bathtime are. It was much easier for the week that we did 7 10 1 4 7 10 because we knew bath and bed were at 7, but that is when she started waking more, not just to eat.

[kayasmama]

One more thing regarding the last post, how will she know the difference between nap and bedtime? Is there something different we should be doing? When she wakes from the last nap of the day, she often cries and is very cranky until she gets her bath and is fed to sleep, regardless if we do it at 6 (on 2 1/2 hr routine) or at 7, so I am pretty sure she is ready for bed at that point. We are trying the 3 hour routine today, but I'm scared of dropped one feeding:) We'll see how it goes....

[jess, lukeys_mom]

Hi there,

I don't quite now how or why - but LO's seem to be able to tell the difference between naps and nights naturally, at least when they are ready for it. It is probably that after a certain number of naps and being awake throughout the day, their bodies are simply just ready to sleep for longer stretches.

You mentioned that you feed her to sleep. Do you mean that you breast feed until she falls asleep and then put her in bed? If so...this will probably explain the extra night wakings. LO's (like adults) wake many times throughout the night. We as adults can just put ourselves back to sleep most times and that's the goal with our LO's too. However, if they only know one way of getting back to sleep (such as breast feeding, rocking, etc) then they can't put themselves back to sleep without it.

To respond to you fearing giving up one of her feeds - just wondering why? Are you worried she won't be getting enough food? It seems like she is telling you when she is hungry, and she is waking in the night and letting you know she wants to breast feed. I just get the feeling that forcing more feeds during the day isn't working for you. If I were you I would try more to let her tell you when she is hungry and go from there.

The difference between a routine and a schedule (to go back to your first question) is that with the routine and with EASY - nothing is exact. Some babies don't go into that perfect 3 hours. I was kind of a control freak with mine at the beginning, and I think I might have missed a growth spurt or two by sticking so closely to the EASY clock That's definitely not the point of a flexibile routine...
X

[kayasmama]

Thanks so much for the info and support. We did a 3 hr routine yesterday with 1 df and she took good naps and only woke once to eat at 3am. Very happy today. As far as being scared to drop a feeding, I was worried that she would not get enough during the day and would wake up even more, but I guess that was not the case yesterday. It worked pretty well. We'll see if it continues....

At her last feeding before bedtime, I try to put her down awake, but she just knocks out. I burp her and change her positions but she is usually pretty much asleep when I put her down. Any suggestions? I know she can put herself back down because I sometimes hear her making noise at night and during her nap and she can go back to sleep(sometimes). I try to put her down drowsy for her nap every time and then only pat her until she is calm and ready to sleep. She is super active and keeps herself awake a lot so I feel like she still needs some help getting at least to the drowsy state.
I've been kind of a control freak with her feeding times too but I am learning to be flexible.

[A pair of Charlies]

Sounds great!!

On dropping a feed. As your babe grows and develops, so is her stomach. So she's capable of taking on more milk that she was a month a go. And as she can take on more, she should be able to last longer between feeds. It's a bit like you or I eating snacks all day long or eating main meals - your babe should now be able to last longer between feeds like we last longer between main meals. If we snack a few hours before a meal, we eat less at the meal because we aren't hungry enough but then we get hungrier before the next main meal .... and so it goes.

There are exceptions to this though. Not all babes are the same, neither are Mamas and neither are breasts. Some can produce more milk than others, some can store more, some can't. It's really important to watch for hunger cues and to act on them. That's why being able to rule out other issues other than hunger is pretty key.

HTH

Charlotte

[jess, lukeys_mom]

Glad it went better last night!

As for putting her down to sleep - if she is settling herself during the day, then I think you are probably fine.  I got the impression that feeding was the way she always gets to sleep - which can cause a dependency and for many also means nw's. In all likelihood though, what you're doing is great. I think Charlotte is probably right, that with the frequent feeds she is used to taking less per feed. So even if she empties a breast, she would get hungry faster as she's used to eating more often.

Hope the pattern continues and you all get more rest. Keep us posted

[jess, lukeys_mom]

PS. Just wanted to mention - pay close attention to sudden increased nw's as this can often mean a growth spurt. As I mentioned I shushed and patted my strength away during one or two of these (wanting to stick to EASY) when I should have just fed him! 

[kayasmama]

Thanks! In retrospect, I think the last week was a growth spurt since her clothes are suddenly a little shorter so I'm glad we went back to the extra feeding for a little bit. Thanks so much for the info and I'll keep you posted. Hopefully this is the start of a good thing.