Wakes every 10 minutes during nap

[mokey_cat]

Or LO is 16 weeks and we have been trying to extend naps for the last 2/3 weeks with W2S and holding through jolts.  Up until the last few days I could maybe extend one nap which was great but recently, after the 45 minute jolts, she wakes fully. 

I can sometimes get her back to sleep either using shh/pat or a dummy (dont think she is dependent on it for sleep and she will still wake if she still has dummy) but she will then wake crying every 5 or 10 minutes until its time to get up.  This happens even if I stay with her and shh/pat for 20 mins after jolts??

Sometimes after waking on and off for 40 or 50 minutes or so she will fall asleep properly for another 45 mins (by which time she is usually due up for a feed) but not in the last few days.

Why does she keep waking like that?  I have kept the A times the same as when W2S was working and I am trying really hard to go by her sleepy cues to avoid OT.  Her A time is around 1 hour 40 mins usually.

Does anyone have any advice?

Thanks

Laura
X

[~Alexa~]

Hi Laura!!

Could you post how your routine looks like?  Something like this:
E. 7 a.m
A. 7 a.m. - 8:40 a.m
S. 8:40 a.m. - ?
And so on.....

Is your lo teething? Reflux?

Hang in there!! You'll get great help from many moms who have been there!!

[mokey_cat]

Hi, thanks for helping 

I dont think she is teething - she does have quite red cheeks though but cant see anything.  She takes gaviscon for reflux but it was never really that bad.

Yesterday
I had to go out between 3.30 to 6

Awake 7.40
E: 7.50
A: until 9.20 (awake time 1.40)
S: 9.20-10.30 Tried to hold through jolts - Woke at 10.05 but shh/pat back to sleep but only slept for 10 mins only (too awake)

E: 11.30
A: until 12.15 (awake time 1.45)
S: 12.25-2.15 Woke fully at 12.50, shh/pat back to sleep but woke every 10 mins until 1.25, then slept until 2.15

E: 2.40
A: until 3.30 (awake time 1.15)
S: 3.30-4.10 in car
A: 4.00-5.20 (awake time 1.20)
S: 5.20-6.00 in car

E: 6.00
A: until 7.00
E: 7.05
Bed 7.30

DF: 10.30

We had about 7/8 night wakings (from 1.30 until 6.00) - think that might be due to breaking out of swaddle (we are trying to wean that).  It was probably the worst night we have had for a while though.  She hasnt needed a night feed since she was 9 weeks and never cried during night, just babbles.  She falls asleep as soon as reswaddled and given dummy.  I have tried feeding when she wakes but she didnt take much and still babbled for ages!

Today
Awake: 7.00
E: 7.10
A: until 8.35 (awake time 1.40)
S: 8.40-10.40 Used pressure for jolts but woke fully at 9.30.  Shh/pat back to sleep at 9.40 but woke every 10 mins for 30 mins - had to shh/pat back to sleep for only a minute each time. 

E: 11.00
A: until 12.20 (awake time 1.45)
S: 12.30-2.35 Used pressure at jolts but woke fully at 1.20. Shh/pat back to sleep at 1.20 but woke every 5 to 10 mins until 2.05 - had to shh/pat back to sleep for only a minute each time. 

E: 2.55

I am hoping to move towards a 4 hour EASY soon and todays feeds have kind of fallen then anyway.  I am trying to follow her sleepy cues (which I find difficult anyway) so 1st yawn and then straight to bed.  She went through a spell of OT and I am trying to avoid that again   

Can you see anything that would cause the continued waking during naps.  We have always struggled with 45 min naps but I thought I was doing a bit better but not anymore.  I was shhing and rubbing her shoulder through the jolts which used to extend the morning nap usually but that doesnt seem to help anymore so I am trying the pressure on chest and legs.

Any help would be so appreciated 

[~Alexa~]

Sorry to listen you are having a difficult time!!

When she woke up in the night, was she crying or chatting and babbling? How did you put her back to sleep?
Do you think it has anything to do with the paci? Could it be that when she was trying to transition to the next sleep cycle, she woke up because she realized she didn't have the paci on? Do you think your lo is paci addict? Does she use the paci for naps and night sleep too?

About the waking up after 10 min when you are trying to extend her naps, I think that you may be leaving her too early.  I would try to stay longer in the room and keep applying pressure for 20-30 min.  At the beginning, you will have to stay the whole time, but little by little, she will get better at transitioning to the next sleep cycle, so she won't need you so much and she will be able to do it by herself.  IYKWIM? So I think that you may be leaving her too early, when she hasn't gotten into deep sleep, so when she has the next jolt, (usually after 10 min) she wakes up.    So you end up going to her room 5 times for every extension. 

I think it is great that you are trying to transition to 4 hr EASY.  You can try to do the A increments slowly.  Here's a very good example.  http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=120362.0

HTH
Keep me posted!! 
Alexa

[mokey_cat]

Thanks for your reply

When she wakes during the night, she usually just chats and babbles.  I resettle by reswaddling and giving her her dummy.  I think since we are trying to wean swaddling though, she wakes up way more as her hands are free.  Now we cant swaddle as she bursts out of it and wakes up as well 

I didnt think she is addicted to the paci but Im not sure.  She gets it for all sleep times but it never used to cause a problem and we could go all night without replugging.  I tried not using it for a day and used shh/pat instead and she didnt mind (actaully she slept all night!).  It just seems to settle her a bit before nodding off.  Maybe its becoming more of a problem now 

I will stay longer during naps tomorrow.  I think I may need to shh/pat until she is in a deep sleep though as I had my hand on her chest today for 25 minutes after she fell asleep and she still woke crying every 10 minutes.  Just need to prepare for a sore back!!

When I try to put pressure on her chest and legs to get her through the jolt she tends to wake up anyway at the 45 minute jolt.  Before, I was rubbing her shoulder and shhing when she jolted and she would sometimes stay asleep but this doesnt seem to work anymore??  When she wakes fully, Im actually better leaving her to see if she will settle (never does) because once she sees me, she wants to get up.  If I leave her she will fuss, then eventually cry but I can then shh/pat back to sleep (well I can sometimes).  Am I doing that correctly?  Or should I go back to the rubbing her shoulder - will that teach her to go through the jolts on her own as well?

I have been trying to extend naps for about 4 weeks now and I dont yet see her being able to get through the transition independently.  If I continue to apply pressure on her chest and legs, will she eventually stay asleep during the jolts or will she always wake? 

Sorry there are so many questions - I am trying to persevere with nap extending as I have a much happier baby when she is well rested.

Thank you so much for your advice 

[~Alexa~]

Hi there!! I think ALL babies go through the 40 min nap monster!! It's biological.  They wake up every 40 min, but when they get older, they are able to go to sleep again by themselves.   My lo is almost 6 months, and he sometimes (very often) wakes up after 40 min, but then he goes back to sleep by himself.  So I think that it is something that we cannot avoid, but we can help them get through the jolts.  I also had to do w2s for a looooong time, until my lo turned 5 months, I was so tired that I just stopped doing w2s and he started to fall back asleep by himself.  So, I'm sure your lo will very soon be able to put herself back to sleep after the jolts.  You are doing an excellent job.  Whatever works for your lo is ok.

I would still keep an eye on the paci addiction because it could cause difficulties in tha transition to the next sleep cycle.  I have heard some moms use it to do nap extension.  So, they replug the paci as soon as the lo stirs and by doing this, she goes back to sleep and gets into the next sleep cycle.  So if your lo is using a paci, you may try it!

Good luck
Alexa

[mokey_cat]

Thanks. 

I think we have a problem with the paci!!  I was up around 8 times to replug last night  so today we have went without.  Its going ok so far.  I have been trying to use it to extend naps but tdidnt really help - she just spat it out and then cried.

The 1st 2 naps involved about 10 mins of shh/patting to start and I was able to extend her 1st nap by shh/patting (she woke during jolts even though I was applying pressure   ).  I stayed for 30 minutes after she fell asleep and carried on patting her on the bottom so she got another 45 minutes of sleep  . 

The second nap I was unable to extend as she seemed so awake and by the time I came to put her down again, she was really OT so there was about 30 mins of screaming before I could get her to settle.  I am really hoping to extend this one. 

I was trying to extend her second A time but Im not too sure she is ready for it yet.

When did you LO start short napping and how long did you use W2S?  Just to give me an idea of what Im facing 

Thanks

Laura
X 

[*Liz*]

I struggle to extend naps lo too - my lo is a bit spirited if he sees me it is game over - hence holding through the jolts is a no go. I sometimes try to extend with shh/ptt and PU/PD (he's 6mths though). If I get him back to sleep and he wakes after 5-10 mins I think that I might have been trying to extend a UT nap, especially if it was 40-45 mins long. It is so much easier to extend a crying 30 min nap. Just thought I'd at add this and see what Alexa thinks of it - especially if it worked a few weeks ago - might just be time for the 4hrly EASY and increase in A times?

[mokey_cat]

I thought I needed to increase A times as well so I tried to extend her 2nd A time from 1.40 to 1.55 today and ended up with a nap that I couldnt extend.  She stayed up for 1hour 20 mins after that and by then she was really OT and cried for a while.  She is so prone to OT so I dont know how to increase A times without having problems.

We are currently on a rough 3.5 hour EASY just now.  I can sometimes extend 1 or 2 naps so we end up having 2 x 1.5 hour naps and 2 x 45min naps each day.  I dont know if we will ever get to a full 2 hour nap so Im not sure how I would get to a 4 hour EASY.  I had a look at the transition link and you need to get LO to nap 1.30 then 1.45 and then 2 hours in order to reach the 4 hours 

I find it hard to read her tired cues.  I think she rubs her head on my shoulder - but if she does this after 1.40 should I put her to bed then or still try to increase A time.  She is happy to be carried for a while so I know I can keep her awake for 10 mins or so but Im not sure about ignoring her tired cues.  She also gets fussy and is only happy when being carried but im not sure if this is a tired sign as she will do this not long after she is awake as well??

Its so hard to tell if the naps are UT or OT as she does seem to wake happy, but will get cranky quite quickly.

DD is textbook/spirited (for sleep) so I am the same - if she sees me - its all over.  I find too that it is easier to extend a nap when she wakes crying. 

On a happier note - we have done without a paci today    We used shh/pat for all naps and night and she responded really well to it.  Lets see how tonight goes.

Thanks

Laura
X

[~Alexa~]

Hi Laura!!
If your lo gets OT very easily, then try to do the increments in A times very very slowly.  Increase them by adding 5 min every 3 days.  For example, if your lo was having 1 hr 40 min, then Monday, Tue, and Wed have 1 hr 45 min A, then add other 5 min for 3 days and so on.  By doing this, we avoid OT but we make sure your lo is tired enough for taking a looong nap!
The problem with UT naps is that bubs are tired, but not tired enough, so we need to make them more tired, but not OT!! There is a fine line, so that's why we have to do it very slowly, especially if your lo tends  get OT! 

My lo started taking short naps since 10 weeks old, I started w2s when he was 16 weeks, I did it for about 1 month.  When he turned 5 months, he was able to handle more A time, so I extended his A times and now he sleeps long naps.  Let me tell you that I rarely get 2 hr naps.  I do get 1.5 hr naps, but 2 hr naps are not so common with my lo! If this happens with your lo, it is ok too.  Some bubs are like that, so 1.5 hr nap sounds great to me!! 

If your lo wakes up happy from the naps, but gets cranky pretty soon, then I would have to say that was an OT nap.  So if this happens, try reducing her next A time. 

Good luck tonight!! Let us know how it goes!!
Alexa

[mokey_cat]

Hi Alexa - thanks!

I have put DD down after 1.45 this morning so lets see what happens.  There was a bit more crying than usual but I suppose she will be a bit more tired and I still only had to shh/pat for 6 minutes until she was asleep (and still no dummy  )

Last night was amazing!!!  She slept from 7.45 until 7.05 this morning with a DF!!!  That is a first.  I heard her wake at 12.30, 4.30 and again at 6 but she was only awake for a few mins each time and fell asleep on her own!!!!!!!!!  Im so so so so so happy.  That was her 1st night with no dummy - can that be helping already???  Maybe it was just a one off but Im optimistic.  It really beats getting up 8+ times to replug!!!

Im hoping the naps sort themselves out soon too.  Will let you know how it goes.

Laura
X

[~Alexa~]

Great news on STTN!!  Your lo is a fast learner!!

Just be ready for some regression! It is completely normal that los experience some regression after making progress.  I don't want to be pesimistic, but I don't want you to get disappointed!! Hopefully your lo continues to be such a fast learner and we don't see any regression, but just consider it a possibility! 

Let's hope that by weaning off the paci your lo sleeps better during naps too! I'll keep my fingers crossed!

Alexa

[mokey_cat]

Well so far today has been a HUGE success    I have kept all A times at 1.45 (5/10 mins longer than normal).

The 1st nap, my DH and I applied pressure to her chest and legs and also covered her eyes.  It made a difference with him there as I cant do all 3 at once.  She never woke at all although the jolts lasted 20 mins.  We got a 1.35 nap!

The 2nd nap was even easier and I held her legs and covered her eyes (myself this time) and she hardly even jolted and only did twice at about 45 mins!  So we got a 1.25 nap! 

Both times have involved about 5-10 mins of shh/patting to start due to going cold turkey on the dummy but I though it would be so much worse.  I have just put her down again and it involved hardly any crying and I only had to shh/pat for a minute until calm and then left her awake and she fell asleep herself 

Im glad you said that about maybe regressing a bit as I probably would be disappointed if tomorrow goes wrong again so at least I will expect a bit of regression now.

I know that she can learn so I will persevere anyway and not get too down if she doesnt do so well tomorrow.  It is the 1st time that W2S has worked properly for us and I am just happy that I have stuck with it until now and it is still early days.

Thanks for you help and advice   

[~Alexa~]

Yaaaaaayyyyy for the success!!

I think your lo needed that extra A time!! This could be part of the success with the nap extension!! Also, you have now found what works for your lo!! (covering her eyes, great!! )

Your lo is a fast learner!! I'm sure she will be doing great!!

Hugs,
Alexa

[mokey_cat]

Hello again

Things have been going a bit better and I am managing to extend 1 or 2 naps each day.  I am still stuck at 1.45 A time though as she seems to get sooooooo grumpy if I leave it any longer and today she cried going down for all naps so I had to shhpat her until she fell asleep (I had managed to leave her to fall asleep completely independently the last few days).  Is this OT?

Also, I can usually extend or shhpat back to sleep the 1st and 2nd nap of the day but I am completely unable to extend the 3rd (we are on a 3.5 hour EASY) so I have been trying to do whatever I can to get her to sleep a bit longer (take her out in pram or car for a bit) but for the last 3 days, she has completely resisted sleeping more.  I have moved her bedtime forward to compensate a bit but tonight she was massively OT and cried for a while before settling.  She is usually so easy to get to slept at night.

The last few days been roughly the same

Awake - 7.05
E - 7.10
A - until 8.45 (awake 1.45)
S - 8.50-10.20 (can usually extend by holding through jolts)

E - 10.30
A - until 12.00 (awake 1.45)
S - 12.05-2.10 (can usually either extend or shhpat back to sleep)

E - 2.15
A - until 3.40 (awake 1.40)
S - 3.50-4.40 (wakes after 40 mins and can sometimes get her to sleep another 10 mins)

Try to get her back to sleep so maybe take a walk about 5-6 but hasnt slept

E - 6.00
A - until 6.50 Bath etc
E top up - 6.50
S - 7.00
DF - 10.30

What should I do if I can extend this last nap.  Ideally we would have 3x1.5 hour naps each day but I would even be happy if she had 2 catnaps in the afternoon but she seems so resistant to another one after 4.30.  She was still tired when she got up from this nap but just wouldnt sleep. 

I dont really want to bring her bedtime forward anymore as I think 12hour night is the maximum she will do and even at that she usually wont last until morning.

Also today she seems to have been really OT but I have stuck with the same A times.  We did go out visiting grandparents yesterday so she only had short catnaps in the afternoon.  Is it possible that she is still OT from then?  If so, how long does it usually take to get back to normal after a day out?

Thanks

Laura
X