3.5 mth old still waking 2 or 3 times to eat

[jackfish]

I hope this is the right spot for this question. My DS is 15 wks and still wakes often to eat at nite. Normally he will eat between 630 and 700pm, then sleep till at least 1030. Sometimes till 1130 or 1230. He kinda switches it up all the time. Then 3 hrs later he'll get up to eat again, and again 3 hrs after that. He seems to really like being up at 5ish am, so he will wake up even if he ate an hr before that. Very frustrating. I usually end up putting him in his swing so that he can at least for a few hrs so we dont start off OT. I know its wrong to do that, but I cannot afford to have the OT monster come back after all the work Ive done to get rid of him. I swear he was OT for like 3 wks straight! Ive pretty much transitioned him to a 3.5 hr easy. He'll sometimes eat at 3 hrs if he's super famished. But I try to distract him as long as possible. Should I just give him his paci and work thru the cries to get him back to sleep or just feed him? He will take 5 oz at these feeds.

I should also mention that hes started a new habit during the day. The last wk or so hes been wanting to play during eating time. He will happily gulp down half his bottle, and when I burp him( which he absolutely fights for some unknown reason) he wants to babble and coo and smile. I dont mind all of that, but he wont take the rest of his bottle. Ill try again at the half hr mark and then again at the 45 min mark. Becuz they say to throw away formula after an hr, I chuck it if he wont take it before then. He has wanted to eat again at the hr and a half mark which is frustrating cuz I dont want him to be a snacker. I contemplate not burping him and just letting him take whatever he can in the first place, but he has acid reflux and I worry itll just come back up again. He has been doing tremendously well with that. Very few spitups which is a huge improvement. He used to fill 2 or 3 receiving blankets at each feed. I was horrible and Im glad thats over. Also I dont understand why hes suddenly fighting burping. He knows its coming when I take the bottle away and he arches his back and screams profusely. I usually burp him sitting on my lap with one hand on his chest and I rub his back and the back of his head against my cheek cuz he bucks back if I dont do this. Sometimes I will pat lightly if its taking away to burp. Any suggestions as to why he may be doing that? He makes it sound like Im spanking him or something and I hate that. He does calm down for the most part after a few rubs but he still doesnt like it. Should I be trying a different approach? This way has always worked for us.

[~Natalie~]

I don't think it is unusual for a LO to still be waking at night to feed, although if you think some of the wakings are habitual (like the 5am) rather than out of hunger you may want to try to wean that feed.  You can try going in 20min before the normal waking time and gentle rub him until he moves.  You don't want to wake him up, just rouse him a little.  That hopefully will cause him to go into another sleep cycle and skip the normal waking time.

You may want to take a look at this link
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=87815.0

Have you tried feeding him in a dark and quiet room so that he does not have much to look at during the time between burping and finishing the bottle?  It could help cut down on the distractions and maybe he would finish.

It is probably a good idea to continue burping him mid feed because of the reflux but maybe changing the position will help.  You could try with him over your shoulder.  Of course you could try for one feed giving him the whole bottle and burping him at the end and see how that is. 

[LeeLeeMelis]

My son is 7 months old and didnt drop to one night feed until about 5 months so dont sweat.  I agree with Natalie to be on the look out for habitual feedings but it's not odd that he is still waking to eat at 3.5 months.

[jackfish]

Thank for the advice. Ill check out that link. I definitely dont feed him at the 5am time unless its been 3 hrs at least. I should also mention that if I let him, he would go straight to bed at around 5pm. I already have to go to sleep not long after he feeds at 630, I dont wanna do that any earlier. I really hope he grows out of this soon.

[~Natalie~]

What about doing a catnap at 5 for 30min, then maybe he would go to bed later?

[jackfish]

Ive tried to put him down at 5. He wakes as soon as he hits the bed and wont go back to sleep. Ive once resorted to having him sleep in my lap for 30 min to stretch out the time and that worked but I dont want to be doing that. And if he does happen to fall asleep, I would have to wake him and he will continue to wake every 3 hrs to eat after that. Kinda weird but thats how he likes to do things. I resorted to the swing again last nite at 4am so that he, and I, could get some more zz's. And he woke up happy and content. Hopefully the rest of the day is good.....

[jackfish]

Hi again. So his naps are getting short again. 45 min! ERGG! I swear, we get one good day and then the rest are a crapshoot. Ive extended his A times to 1.5 hrs cuz he freaks out if I try to put him down sooner. He is also on 3.5 Easy. I still have problems with him finishing his bottle and Im experimenting putting a blanket over him while he eats. He thinks its a game(great). I turn off everything so he has nothing to distract him. But its me that he smiles and coos at. So cute, but just want him to finish his bottle. And also still having a hugh issue with this early wakeup. I dont think its a habit. I believe hes treating it like a naptime. The last feed at nite, which can range from 230-430 depending on how he ate previously, he will wake about an hour and a half after that. If he eats at 230am, then he would wake at 530-600ish to eat anyways. But if he wakes after 300am that is exactly what he does. Probly the best nap he gets all day, might I add, but its not a naptime. How do I get rid of it and extend his sleep time? ITs been going on for a mth now and Im exhausted! I can count on one hand how many times hes slept past that time, but Im still awake cuz im so used to him stirring at that time that I cant get back to sleep. Ive pretty much resorted to putting him in his swing every morning. I try him in his bed first cuz I really want him to learn how to get past it by himself, but when he wakes Im so tired and frustrated and so is he, that in the swing he goes. It can take anywhere from 20 min to an hr to get him back to sleep. By that time its pretty much time to eat again! HELP!!!!! Please say they end this soon! He'll be 4 mths on the 21st, so Im hoping that'll be a better mth for us.

[~Natalie~]

Do you think he is really hungry at the 2:30-4:30 time?  I was wondering if you could use shh/pat to get him past this time.  Maybe he would then wake closer to 4-5 and you can feed him and put him back down to sleep.

Why don't you post your whole day time routine, maybe something during the day should be tweaked to get rid of the EW.

[jackfish]

Heres kind of a typical day. Again, it changes for whenever he wakes for the day.

e-600
a-620
s-800(cannot start winding him down any earlier than 1.5 a time)
e-930(i try my damndest to get him to sleep longer than 45min for every nap)
a-950
s-1130
e-100
a-120
s-300
e-430
a-450
s-600 for a nap
e-700/730 depending on how long he napped
s-730/800
s-1200
e-230/330 (he randomly sleeps either 3 or 4 hrs)
s-300/400
wakes between 5 and 6 and fight to get him to sleep

If I succeed in getting him to sleep before 600ish, I let him sleep as long as he'll possible go. Its never longer than 800am tho. And thats only if he's in his swing, which he usually is at that time. Shh/pat doens work on him. It just riles him up. Holding his legs and chest down helps a little as long as i catch him before he's all riled up. But i have to keep putting his paci in his mouth. He's learning to hold it in his mouth longer but still spits it out and then wants it again right away. Should I maybe try pu/pd? I have noticed at this last feed, he sometimes isnt all that interested but eat most of it. So maybe I really should be trying to cut that one out. Im gonna try this 2nite and see how it works. I would luv if i could get rid of a feed. Its draining me to be getting up so frequently when he really should be sleeping longer. Oh and the last week Ive bumped his formula up to 6 oz cuz he was draining his bottles, and he was doing good the first couple days. Then the last couple days hes been spitting up a lot of it again. I figured he was overfeeding himself cuz he did this before, so I went back down to 5 oz again today. Its like a yoyo with him. Everyday is so different from the last.

[~Natalie~]

Are all of his naps around 45min or are some longer.  I know the first A time you said you can't wind him down earlier than 1.5hours, but what about the other A times?  Usually if a LO takes a 45min nap they need a short or at least and less stimulating A time following it.  I also notice that there is a big gap in his day, a nap at 11:30 and then not one again until 3, am I reading that right?

Usually pu/pd is not recommended until a LO is 4mo since it can be a little overstimulating.  You can rub instead of pat and you could try humming instead of the shh part.  I kind of had to mix things up until I found was DS liked the best.  He was very picky about where he wanted me to pat him and how. 

I see that he is using a paci, do you think that could be contributing to the NWs?  Has it fallen out when you go to him at night? 

Have you tried doing a DF to see if he will last a little longer at night before the 3am feed? 

I would also give wake-to-sleep a go for three nights, go in at about 4:45 and stir him slightly so hopefully he will skip the 5am waking. 

[jackfish]

All his a times have to be 1.5 hrs unless hes ot, then i shorten them. I follow a 3.5 hr schedule so yes the naps are correct. He doesnt use a paci at nite. Only during the day. And yes Ive tried a df. I tried it for 2 wks a mth or so ago and it didnt change his pattern. He still woke up on schedule to eat. And Ive also tried the w2s method. Im afraid it just wakes him up and then I spend the next hr calming him down and trying to get him to sleep so either way it doesnt really matter. I try not to overstimulate him during a time. Usually hes in his bouncy chair for the most part cuz I want him to keep as much of his food in him as possible. At about the 45min to hr mark, Ill switch him over to his playgym so he can kick at the toys and do some tummytime, which he's finally starting to like but not for very long. Then we do wind down which consists of changing his diaper if its dirty, putting him in his sleepsack, walking around saying sleepy sleep to a few objects and pictures, then into our rocker with his paci in his mouth. We sit for about 10 min so he can calm down, longer if hes aggitated, then into his crib where I hold his legs and chest down for about 10-20 while putting his paci back in his mouth every once in awhile. Its a fricken process but it stops him from having a meltdown and screaming till he passes out. Sometimes I dont see the difference between cio and being in the rm while he cries. I flat out refuse to walk around with him to calm him down cuz I dont want that to be a habit. Hes starting to get pretty heavy.

Basically its a battle that Im horribly losing. I tried so hard to stick to easy and he just has a whole different idea on how he wants things done. The worst is that I still dont understand most of his cries. The only one I know is the hunger one and thats only cuz he will suck the crap out of his paci and keep spitting it out cuz he wants food. If he didnt have the reflux problem and the spitting up problem, id probly be making more progress with this easy routine but its foiled me every step of the way. He just has so many problems I have no clue which one is bothering him when he cries or if its all of them. I just wish his doc would take my pleas seriously instead of brushing it off to being a first time mom and that I need to be patient. My patience left me mths ago and Im still waiting for something to get better. He shouldnt have to suffer and listen to me rant and rave cuz Im ed and tired.

[jackfish]

I should ask if Im doing this correctly since everywhere i read it says to teach them to go to sleep independantly without the bottle. At nite, should i be keeping him awake after he eats of just let him fall asleep again right after? Ive always just let him go to sleep right after. Granted, we've also have to sit upright after he eats so he tends to pass out in my lap before i can get him to bed. I do stir him a little so he know hes going into his crib. He usually fusses for a few minutes then hes off to sleep till the next wakeup feeding.

[~Natalie~]

The night feeds are different, you don't need to worry about him going to sleep right away.  It is just important to make sure he is not falling asleep eating during the day time.  Its about establishing a rhythm to the day, letting him know that after he eats its time to play not sleep. 

Is he on reflux meds? Do you think it is under control?  DS had bad reflux that he finally grew out of at 13mo so I know the problems that surround all of that. 

[jackfish]

We tried Ranidine for 2 wks when he was 2 wks old. It didnt seem to do anything for him. But then I didnt know really what to look for. He has his 4 mth appt on tues and Im gonna have a chat with my doc and try to get something done about it. Last nite was better but we all know that it doesnt last so we will see how the day unfolds. Heres how it went last nite:

e-530
a-550
s-630-745(I woke him so I could bath him-he was not impressed. I wouldnt be either)
e-800
s-830-100(I was fricken amazed)
e-110
s-130
woke at 415/held his legs and chest down till 445, then off and on till 540. He was doing his wakeup stretches for the last 20 min and I kept trying to extend his sleep. He wasnt opening his eyes during it so I figured it was ok.
e-550
a-610
s-740(hopefully he sleeps longer than 45 min. I guess we will see....

[~Natalie~]

If he is in pain or discomfort form the reflux then sleep training doesn't really work.  Do you have his bed elevated?  That really helped us.  With what every meds your LO is on or get on you can usually see a difference after a week.  I would definitely ask your doctor about it again.  Go through this list and see what symptoms he has and then take it to the Dr. with you.
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=654.0

I am wondering if maybe he is UT when you put him to bed, therefore he is waking early because he has already had enough sleep.  The lat nap is pretty late in the day so he may be treating it as part of his night time sleep so if he was having a 12 hour day/night then waking at 6am wouldn't be unexpected.  I always liked to aim for a 12 hour day/night.  So you could decided what the ideal wake up/ bed time would be and then adjust your schedule around that.