When to do w2sleep?

[Micky01]

Hi there.  DS ( 10 mo) is stuck on 30 min naps for his first nap.  When should I do w2sleep?  I have watched him and he is constantly twitching!   Not sure at what minute to try it??



Oh no!  He just woke from a 25 min nap!  Now what??  A timw was 3 hrs  15 min. He was rubbing eyes and yawning, so I think A time was ok.   Anybody know what is going on?
Thanks for any help!

[~Alexa~]

Hi there!! sorry you are having a tough time!

Could you post your routine? Something like this:
E. 7 a.m
A. 7 a.m. - 10 a.m
S. 10 a.m. - 10:25 a.m
A. 10:25 a.m - ?

And so on... Post a normal day.  Maybe yesterday or today!!

By looking at your routine, we can help you out tweaking it so you get longer naps.  Lots of moms have been through this and will be glad to share their experience and what worked for them.

How is your lo sleeping in the nights?  Has he always slept short naps? When did this start?

Hugs,
Alexa

[Micky01]

Thanks Alexa.  This has been his routine for about the last 2 wks. 

wake: between 5:30 and 6:30
eat: bf around 6am solids an hour or so later
A:  This varies.  He has been having really early wakings between 3 and 4am and usually up and down until around 4:40 or 5.  Then I can usually get him back down until 6 or 6:30.  On the mornings he has been up a lot, I have cut the A time to 2 hrs 30 or 45 min.  I've tried everything up to 4 hours of wake time and am still getting a 25 to 30 min nap for first nap.   He is usually going down between 9 and 9:30.
S:  25 to 30 min Usually up around 9:30 or 10

E:  Snack - a few crackers and cheese, ect.

A:  I have to pick up from preschool at 11:30 and we don't get home until 12 or so, so this A time is usually 3 to 3.5 hours. 
E:  bf 12:00
S;  12:30 or 1pm,  Will usually do 45min to 1hr.  The closer he is to 3.5 hrs of A time, the more likely it will be an   hour.
E:  Lunch - solids
A:  Usually 2pm to 4:30
E:  Sometimes a bf around 4 if he needs it
S:  I rock him to sleep for a catnap, he needs it to get through dinner and bath,  lasts 30 to 40 min
E:  5 or  5:30 - Dinner, solids
A:  Bath, jammies, bf
S:  In crib at 6 0r 630

Night sleep has never been great,but getting better.  We are doing gradyal withdrawal to get him to sleep without us patting him.  Still doing one feed around 11pm.  Thanks for your help!

[~Alexa~]

Is your lo paci addict?
Has he always slept short naps?
What do you do when he wakes up early in the morning? Is it always at the same time?
How many NW do you have? Do you feed him? How do you put him back to sleep when he wakes up in the night?
Does your lo have a lovey?
Does he always wake up from the naps at the same time?

Sorry for all the questions....I just need more info!!

Hugs, hang in there
Alexa

[Micky01]

No problem
*no paci
* naps have been short since about 3months of age
*for early morning wakes we used to pat him back to sleep, it took forever, now we are just using our  voice and sitting by his crib.  It is usually around 3:30 or 4 (which is often 3 to 4 hours after I have fed him) it still takes about an hour to get  him back to sleep
*We were going through a spell when there were a ton of NW.  Since we have started just sitting next to the crib instead of patting him, they have lessened.  Usually 1 between  10 and 12 (it always varies) I feed him at this one and then another around 3:30 or 4.  If he is way ot  before bed, there will be more.  When he wakes, I always wait a few min, then pick up to make sure he isn't sick, then put down immediately and sit by his crib.  It usually infuriates him. 
*He hasn't bonded to anything yet.  There are a couple of tiny blankets and animals in his crib, but he doesn't show much interest
* Yes, for the last 2 wks am nap has always been 25 to 30 min and Pm 45 to an hour.  They used to vary, maybe an hour in the am and then 45 min for pm
Thank you!



 

[~Alexa~]

So I think that your lo needs more A time during the day and that may be causing the EW too. 

When your lo wakes up early, try to ignore him unless he starts crying.  If he chats and babbles, then leave him alone in his crib.  Don't go to him.  If he does cry, then go to him, calm him down, and put him in his crib.  Leave him there until wake up time.  At what time do you want your lo to wake up? I think 6:30 am is what you have been doing, right?
Ok, so if he wakes up before 6:30 am, just ignore him and let him stay in his crib.  (Unless he cries) But we need him to let him know that the day starts at 6:30 am.  We are going to consider his wake up time to be 6:30 am, so after this, we should extend his next A time.  Try to have him down for his nap at 9:30 a.m.  If he takes a short nap, try to extend it by shpatting, but if it doesn't work, then leave him in the crib with a toy or some thing.  Then, take him out and let him have some A time.  If he takes a short nap, then try 3 - 3.5 hr A time and see how it works. 

We need to increase his A times by adding 15 min.  So I would start with the first A time.  So for a couple of days put him down for his nap at 9:30 am, no matter EW.  When having EW, los count on the first nap as an extension of their night sleep.  So that's why we need to have that first nap at 9:30 am and not before.  Does this make sense? If he still has an EW, then we will have to push that first nap even later.

Once we get that first nap sorted out, we can then move to the next nap.  If your lo gets a long first nap, then his next A time will be 3.25 hr.

We will have to experiment until we find the right A times for your lo to get longer naps.  We need him to get those 4 naps into 2 long naps.  And for doing this we will need to modify his A times.
So try that first nap at 9;30 am for a couple of days and let me know how it goes.

Hope this helps
Alexa

[~Alexa~]

I just want to add something to my pp!! 
Try to introduce a lovey!! Choose a stuffed animal and sleep with it for a couple of days so that it gets mom's smell.  Then give it to your lo during all his naps and during the nights.  With time, he will attach to it and relate it with sleep. 
When you introduce it for all sleep time, they get attached very easily!

[Micky01]

Ok, will do.  Down for first nap at 9:30 regardless of ew's.   Every once in a while (like this morning for instance) he was up from 3:40 to 5:00.  Then slept until 7.  If this happens, I should put him down at 10 instead of 9:30 right?  So we do this for a few days and then increase it by a little more, right? and hopefully this will get rid of ew's.  Then we can work on A time for second nap.  Sorry to repeat everything, just making sure I get it!! Thank  you, thank you.  It feels so much better to have a plan!  Also will work on the lovey situation!

[~Alexa~]

Yeap!! You got it right!! Let's hope that this works!! Try this for 3 days and let's see if your lo gets longer naps.  IF he doesn't, then we can add more A time.  But, you explained it just the way it is!!

Keep me posted on how things go!
Fingers crossed!
alexa

[Micky01]

Hi Alexa!  I'm back!  Thought I'd give you a report on how things are going.  We have had some success!  He is still having some NW's, but they have moved.  Can be anywhere from 2am to 4am.  Good news is that they are not lasting that long!  A couple of days he woke only once at 11pm to eat and then up for the day at 5:45am.  I have been keeping him in his room until about 6:15am.  Last night, woke at 9pm, fed him and then only one other wake around 3am.  I picked him up once and then he fell back asleep until 6:48am!!  First A time has been averaging around 3 to 3.5 hrs and we are usually getting a 1 hr nap .  Then second A time I am pushing to 4.5 hours with a hour first nap, only 4 hrs with a short first nap.  He has been sleeping for an hour to an hour and 20 min for second nap! .  One day he did 2hrs for second nap and I had to wake him to preserve bedtime!  He is finally able to get through the day without a catnap.  We are working now on tweeking bedtime to correspond to two naps.  We've kind of been all over the place with that.  Some nights going to bed at 6pm and others, not unitl 7:30.  How long should that A time be before bedtime after a decent (1 hour ) afternoon nap?   He seems kind of tired after 3 hours, but I'm worried I'm putting him to bed too early.   Also, should we keep that first A time where it is for now?  Thank you for all of your help!
Jessica 

[~Alexa~]

Hi Jess!! I’m glad to listen you have had some success!!  Could you post your routine for the last couple of days so I can take a look and help you out with bedtime?

Hugs,
Alexa

[Micky01]

Yes, thank you!  Here is  yesterday and today:

Yesterday
wake: 6:45am,
A time:3 hrs, 20 min
Nap 1: Fell asleep at 10:05 for 1 hr. 10 min, awake at 11:15am
A time: 4 hrs 15 min
Nap 2: Fell asleep at 3:30 for 1 hr,  awake at 4:30
A time: 2 hrs, 15 min
Bed: Fell asleep at 6:45.  I know this was a short A time, but he seemed tired and I thought I would keep it as close to a 12 hr day as possible.  Any thoughts?


Today
Last night he only woke once at 10:30pm to eat, then slept through unitl 5:30 am!
Wake:  5:30am, did not leave room until 6:15am
A time: 3.5 hrs
Nap 1:  Fell asleep at 9:01,  asleep for 1 hour, awake at 10:00am
A time: 4.5 hours
Nap 2:  Fell asleep at 2:27, asleep for 1 hour, awake at 3:30pm
A time: 3 hrs, 10 min
Bed:  Into crib at 6:30, asleep at 6:40,   I was going to have him to bed at 6pm, but we had some bad weather interrupt dinner.  He was really rubbing his eyes during the book and fussed a little before falling asleep, so not sure if he was over tired or not.  Is it normal to have such a short A time before bed?

Thanks again!

 

[~Alexa~]

Hi Jess!! Some babies like to have the longest A time before bedtime, but other bubs just get tired as the day goes by, so they have the shortest A before bedtime.  We will have to get to know your lo and see what he likes. But I think that right now he is handling a short time before bedtime b/c he is a bit OT!

I think that 3 hr 20 min first thing in the morning is working better than 3.5 hrs.  So I would keep the first A time 3 hr 15 min or 3 hr 20 min long.  Your lo seems to be having a longer nap (1 hr 20 min) with this A.  Then, when he wakes up from this nap, he is having 4.5 hrs A.  That is too long.   I would try having 3.5 hrs A before the pm nap.
I think your lo is going down OT for this nap and that is why he is only taking 1 hr nap.  So put him down after 3.5 hr A and hopefully, he will have a longer nap. 

If you want bedtime to be at 7 pm then you may want to wake him up from the last nap at 4 pm (max).  So that he has 3 hrs to go before bedtime.  I think your lo is only able to handle 2 hr 15 min before bedtime b/c he is getting OT due to the long A before the pm nap.  So try to have 3.5 hr before the pm nap and then let me know how long that nap was.  Depending on that, we will decide when to put him to bed.  Does this make sense?

If your lo is getting good naps, then you may have a 12.5 hr day and a 11.5 hr night. 

Keep me posted   Take a look at this info.  http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=95670.0
Alexa

[Micky01]

Thanks Alexa,  I will try a shorter A time for 2nd nap.  That makes sense, I think everything is catching up with him.  Last night he was definately OT.  He was up at 3, 4, 5, and 6am.  I finally fed him at 6 and he fell back asleep until 7  .   I put him down this morning at 10, after 3 hrs A time. He fussed around for about 20 min and then did  a 1.5 hr nap!   I will aim for 3.5 hours for 2nd nap and let you know!
Thank you

[~Alexa~]

Let me know how the pm nap goes!! Just remember that you will have to wake him up from this one if you want to preserve bedtime. 

It may be worth taking a look at this thread.  http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=145344.15
I think your lo is starting the transition!!

Keep me posted!