my 15 w lo's feed habit

[banu]

hi,
i start my mumy adventure unluckly due to my milk suply. it was less and i didnt know that. so i continue to breastfeeding. therefore my lo was feeding nearly 1.5-2 hours on one breast. then this situation reached up to 20 hours. i can say we lived together but nobody notice that my milk supply getting less and less day by day. his mouth was always on my nipples during these time. horrible days. as a result of this his sleeping and eating routine was a nightmare. he is going good at independent sleeping. thanks to Hogg and this forum. our EASY routine is also getting better. i feed him 3 hours routine. he is good at this. but my problem and i m asking your help is he takes different amount each time. then i stopped breastfeeding to calculate how much he takes. he takes between 60 cc to 210 cc. this is the wide range. he mostly takes between 100-150 cc. i want to return feed him from breast but with this habit my breast cant supply his recoments. he is 15 w now. i pump my milk and give also formula when needed (appr 2-3 times a day). is it normal for infants take that different amount? if not is there anything that i can do?
thnks
banu

[* Paula *]

Yes it can be normal for lo's to take smaller amounts at one feed and then more at another.

However the general guideline is 2.5 - 2.7 oz of formula per llb of body weight.  This is a guideline though and some lo's take more and some take less.

I would keep a diary of the amount your lo takes over a few days per feed and see if you can see a pattern.  If you post on here we can have a look for you too.

[banu]

many many thanks. i m really afraid he will be irregular E rutine while he is growing up. i wish to correct this. here is his feed in cc. sorry for they are not oz. * indicates formula milk, others my pumped milk. i bf only mornings, in some case i had to bf other E times.

   06.Mar   7.Mar   8.Mar   9.Mar
07.00            
10.00   150   120   100   105
13.00   80   90   150   105
16.00   80   210   80   125+3 min BF
19.00   155   80   130   100
23.00   120*   155*   130*   140*


   10.Mar   11.Mar   12.Mar   13.Mar   14.Mar   15.Mar
07.00   30m BF   10m BF   40m BF   30m BF   20m BF   12m BF
10.00   105   120   60   140   120   90
13.00   115   125   85   130*   90   110
16.00   155*   120*   150   90*   60   145*
19.00   60*   135   145*   80*   210   135
23.00   180*   105*   135*   180*   155*   120*


   16.Mar   17.Mar   18.Mar
07.00   25m BF   25m BF   23m BF
10.00   110   130   130
13.00   17m BF
             +180*   130   110

16.00   11m BF
            +40*      135*   80*

19.00   90*   130   145
23.00   150*   120*   155*

[banu]

i resend.

many many thanks. i m really afraid he will be irregular E rutine while he is growing up. i wish to correct this. here is his feed in cc. sorry for they are not oz. * indicates formula milk, others my pumped milk. i bf only mornings, in some case i had to bf other E times.

   06.Mar   7.Mar   8.Mar   9.Mar
07.00            
10.00   150   120   100   105
13.00   80   90   150   105
16.00   80   210   80   125+3 min BF
19.00   155   80   130   100
23.00   120   155   130   140


   10.Mar   11.Mar   12.Mar   13.Mar   14.Mar   15.Mar
07.00   30m BF   10m BF   40m BF   30m BF   20m BF   12m BF
10.00   105   120   60   140   120   90
13.00   115   125   85   130   90   110
16.00   155   120   150   90   60   145
19.00   60   135   145   80   210   135
23.00   180   105   135   180   155   120


   16.Mar   17.Mar   18.Mar
07.00   25m BF   25m BF   23m BF
10.00   110   130   130
13.00   17m BF
             +180   130   110

16.00   11m BF
            +40        135   80

19.00   90   130   145
23.00   150   120   155

[* Paula *]

What size teat are you using?  Do you think that your lo could be bored with the flow and ready for the next stage up teat?

Does your lo suffer from reflux at all?

I see when your lo takes  smaller feed the next one is a lot bigger.  It looks like on average your lo is taking about 500mls per day. - That is about 20oz. 

[*Liz*]

Remember that what your lo takes from a bottle is not the same as they would take off the breast. A baby can get more off the breast than a pump.

Also a baby will drink from a bottle even if they are full because it is there and easy to get. They will not do this on the breast as they have to work harder. So your body might not have as much variation to deal with - and anyway - your body can probably cope with more than you realise.

You do say you want to return him to the breast? I would be tempted to do so really as otherwise your lo may start to prefer the bottle, and also your baby will stimulate your supply better than a pump which is important if you have low supply. If you need to top up with formula you could offer a bottle after the breast feed.

I would also think a post on the breastfeeding page would be a good idea - for advice on icreasing supply and how to top up without damaging your own supply.

[banu]

thanks.
as i mentiond at the first message he aimed bad habit due to suck at least 2 hours one breast since 2 months before. i started completly to give from the bottle two weeks ago. i noticed that i need to know this takings at each feeding. because once he takes 5-10 min only from one breast and does not take anymore, on the other feed he takes both breast but still wants more. so no formule grows my breast supply if he goes on take this diffrent amounts. although i want to return bf, his regular takings seems more important. i am afraid this habit will go when the is growing up. is there anything to correct this situation. look at this diffrent amount. does the other babys take this wide range in one day?
120 cc
90 cc
60 cc
210 cc
155 cc

[*Liz*]

Babies intake does vary like this - there are lots of reasons for it. We are often guilty of expecting our babies to do the same thing every day - but they just don't - just like you or I they have differing food requirements depending on the day. For example they may have tummy ache, and don't feel like eating so only have a little, then later when they feel better they eat loads as they are hungry.

If it is helpful I can tell you what my lo ate yesterday. He does have reflux and is 6 mths now but not taking any solids yet. I mix feed BF and bottles too.

7am BF 10 mins one side
11am 90ml
3pm 170ml
7pm BF 20 mins both sides
2am 180ml

But tuesday was,
7am BF 5 mins one side
11am 30ml
1pm refused
2pm 100ml
5pm 30ml
7pm BF 15 mins one side, refused the other
12am 120ml
4am BF 10 mins one side

So huge variation too - but my lo does have feeding issues due to his reflux. That said he was unwell all day yesterday and fine on tuesday so makes no sense. It is frustrating though.

Sore teeth can stop them feeding and well as tummy aches.

My lo used to be fully BF and we did have problems with frequent feedings and snacking so I understand how tiring it is. That is part of why I mix feed now too.

But what I mean is your body can provide for varying feed amounts too - some will be left in the breast after a small feed that you lo can have as extra the next time.

That said some babies just are very hard to breast feed as they are on and off all the time. If bottle feeding works better for you then that is great  . Mix feeding certainly works better for me. I enjoy BFing twice a day but found it too frustrating battling with him all day. I express EBM and use formula when I haven't got enough - so the same really.

Hope this helps

Do you think your lo has reflux? As that can be helped by treatment - have a look at this and see if it fits
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=654.0

[banu]

oh gosh your is exactly same as mine

1-do you think he has a reflux. why his doctors did not notice that. altough i said he is criying during the bf. i though my milk finished agin and i gave him bottle after the bf. oofff i hate child doctors. i changed 3 in three months. anyway he has the semptoms below;

*vomiting or spitting-up more than one hour after eating (not always, especially after too much movement)
*refusing to feed, arching back, crying on breast or bottle even though hungry (not as much as before)
*hoarse voice
*constantly running nose;
*salivation (but i dont know if it is excesive)

2-is this irregular feeding habit will continue during he is grawing up?

3- he does not look like teeting.

4-my one breast does not look like enough.

5-do you think i can suply his demands at each feeding although he takes from 60 cc to 210 cc?

6- may be this question will be funny. how i will understand he is up while bottlefeed. he is crappy or yells after for a while feeding by bottle, but at the same time drinks his milk. should i stop to feed or continue. is this because of reflux. he does the same on the breast as well. he takes breast then yells, bf, yells ... goes like this.

[*Liz*]

I don't know if he has reflux or not - but the symptoms you have show he may have. If you are concerned that it is pain that is preventing him from feeding sensibly then I would discuss it with your doctors. I agree it is hard to find a doctor that you can get on with.

If he is a fussy feeder then it is likely it will continue to a degree as so many things interfere with eating. Soon he'll be teething, and then may get a cold, and then will start on solids. Things will likely settle down a little when solids are well established at about 9 months.

My lo always disliked changing sides when breast feeding. No idea why, but I was able to supply with just one side, apart from the evening feed. Perhaps if you stretch the feeds to 3 hrs like you have done with the bottles then you could 'teach' your body to single side feed. I think you should have a chat with the girls on the breastfeeding site. I'm not the best person to advise on low milk suppy as I have always had the opposite problem.

Your supply will cope with variable feedings - it will most likely work to roughly average. And you do have the option of a formula top up at the end of a feed if you need it on his more extreme days.

The yelling may be frustration or discomfort. Does he get windy? I tend to take my lo off when he gets upset and settle him then offer again. Some feeds can be very frustrating  . It can be a symptom of reflux. Or slow milk flow.

Come and discuss the breastfeeding side of things on the board and then whatever way you decide is best for you and your lo we will be there to support you. There are lots of us around who chose to mix feed with formula also.

What you could do is try a breast feed at one other feeding and she if your lo still manages to last 3 hours or not. That will help you know if your milk is OK. But you seem to be doing really well with the expressing which is a good sign  .