sleep deprived and confused

[Mum-of-Two]

I'm at my wits end.  Oliver went to sleep at 9 and slept to midnight, great!  I got to sleep around 10 so that means 2 hours for me.  Then was awake from midnight to 2 a.m. only to wake again at 2:30 to eat.  I put him back down around 3:30 awake, not sure how long of my holding his binky in did he fall asleep, by then I was beside myself and he was up again by 5 to grunt.  Never really did fall back asleep for more than a few minutes here or there.  Finally ate again at 7 a.m.  This is a nightly pattern, at least 3 days in a row this time.

I will note that when he sleeps well, he does not need the binky.  Only when he's fighting sleep or grunting from gas does he take it.

Around 1:15 in the morning I woke DH in tears, O was crying and fussing.  He told me to put him down but he had not burped and I knew that meant he would throw up.  But my DH is more practical and figured just let him do it, holding him screaming wasn't helping.  I did put him down where Oliver fussed but did not cry anymore, he did throw up, but I had a sheet protecter under his head so I changed that so he was dry.  Still took from 1:15 to 2 a.m. for him to fall asleep though and that means me holding his binky in so its not like it helped me to put him down other than at least I wasn't holding a wiggly baby anymore.

I really don't know what to do.  We bottle feed during the day expressed BM and I BF at night.  Normally he's calm at night and the BF worked well but it has become as frustrating as it was during the day in the first month with him falling asleep or bobbing on and off and (importantly due to spit up issues) not burping properly.  So, I breastfed him at midnight and again I didn't know if he ate to his full or what.  He was so fussy I couldn't tell what he wanted or needed.  So at the 2:30 a.m. feed I made him a bottle.  I woke up horribly engorged because of it but I had to try.  For the record, other than my knowing he ate hence one less thing to be frazzled about, it didn't help him in either direction.

Why on earth is he awake at night?  He is either wide eyed and playful after eating or grunting and uncomfortable before/after eating, either way he's up.  And why on earth is that when his gas comes on and wakes him?

Our EASY stinks, I know that.  He takes long naps during early in the day and will go 4 hours between eating easily.  As a matter of fact, yesterday I had to wake him at the 4 hour mark twice because he was still sleepy/sleeping.  Grant it the one nap was after the doctor visit so I understand that long stretch but the other long stretch was right after breakfast.  He ate at 7,had good awake time, then slept until 11 when I woke him so he could eat and be ready for the doctor.

Evenings are a crap shoot, he takes cat naps between 5 p.m. and 9 p.m., eating every time he wakes (cluster?)

Must run and feed Elise now, thanks for listening.

[Archies mummy]

No real help but wanted to send some (((((((hugs))))) sleep deprivation is a killer. My lo took a good few weeks to want to sleep all night rather than get some energy and want to play at the wrong time!

[MLK]

Sorry you are going through this, sounds really tough!

Do you think he might be in pain? My son used to sleep OK during the day, but at night he used to wake multiple times until I thought I was going crazy. Turns out he has milk and soy protein intolerance causing reflux - he would vomit lots, and had funny runny green mucusy poos. Do any of those apply to you? If so, you could try going dairy and soy free for 2-3 weeks - sometimes it takes up to 4 weeks for them to recover. The food allergy board has lots more info.

The only real way to be sure it really is the dairy/soy is to add it back in after symptoms have disappeared and see if he gets worse again. It's hard going dairy/soy free, but  I just keep thinking about those multiple night wakings whenever I'm tempted! I've also found some dairy free chocolate so that helps!

[~*~Little Miss Sunshine~*~]

{{{{hugs}}} Jill! I was really hoping O would be better for you last night!  I have no advice but do want to let you know that Ethan does the same things at night, waking every time he has gas.  And it always seems so much worse starting at 4 am...so much so that he rarely gets any decent sleep from then until I get him up for the day.  Doesn't matter if I feed him or not.  I've even tried Mylicon to help with the gas but last night that certainly didnt' work.  Wish I had something to offer

[Mum-of-Two]

The vomit/spit up is about 2 weeks old here, early on he was just gasy, now it is both.

The mucusy green poos do sound familiar -- if not green then orange yellow.  He has one bright yellow "normal" poop a day and the rest are, as my DH put it, slimy.

I've been struggling with the idea it is my milk causing him so much discomfort.  He has no rash or any other symptoms so I've been putting it off as the reason.  I asked his doctor at the well checkup yesterday and was told he is just swallowing too much air and I keep him at the breast too long.  But since we bottle feed the breast milk during the day I don't know if I'm sold on that.  The doctor thinks since he is growing so well there is nothing to worry about.

I have a freezer and fridge full of milk, I'll be devastated if he is allergic to it.

Thank you for posting, the idea that he has some intolerance to what I eat keeps coming up, maybe I need to face it.  It is going to be very hard to go dairy/soy free.  I can hardly get dinner on the stove with both a newborn and 3 yr old let alone make a special diet for me.  Sigh.  I'll go check the allergy boards and see, thank you.

Oh, I forgot to mention Oliver sleeps like a rock in his swing during the day -- it doesn't even need to be turned on.  He also loves his car seat.  At night I obviously lay him flat.

Keep the ideas coming, and thank you again!

[MLK]

The sleeping well when upright and the slimy poos do sound like reflux/MSPI to me - any chance of seeing another doc about it? It was our paed/nurse who put us on to the MSPI. My son never had any rashes/eczema either -  just the vomiting and funny poo - and the multiple NWs! He was also really gassy and he used to poo a LOT too - about 8-10 times a day until 3 months old after I went dairy/soy free. He was gaining weight well too - about 40g (1.5 oz) a day. His poos didn't turn the "normal" BF mustard yellow until he was 4 months old.  Do check out the food allergy board though  - there is tons of info on it.

Also this website is very useful

http://www.cryingoverspiltmilk.co.nz/

I hear you on the frozen milk - I had to throw out a heap too! I put off going on the diet too because it all just seemed too much  - but I finally bit the bullet at 8 weeks. It hasn't been so hard after the initial adjustment- the hardest thing to replace is cheese, the rest there are pretty good substitutes for.  It does mean cooking from scratch a lot which is hard with 2 LOs to look after! One of the worst was seeing everyone else eat the frozen lasagnes/pies/pasta bakes that I had made while pregnant!

Hugs to you, reflux is no fun! If you need to, could you strap him into the swing or elevate the cot (with pillows under the mattress) at night? Just to get some rest. There are also wedges/slings you can buy to keep them upright at night. The higher the better, about 20-30 degrees.

[Mum-of-Two]

The odd thing, he doesn't have much poop.  I mean, he'll have a spot or two when passing gas but only has a big poo once a day or so.

I just talked to a friend of mine.  Her LO (born 6 wks early in February) was diagnosed with reflux and is on medicine for it -- her symptoms and Olivers are so very similar its silly!!  Only my doctor I think got the wrong impression.  Oliver spit up a little bit in the office when the nurse was there -- I said "oh more spitup" and it was odd because when the doctor came in the first thing he said was "thats not enough spit up to worry about".  Now, I hadn't even talked to him about my worries yet so I think the nurse misunderstood me somehow.  I knew that was a little bit but considering it was 2 hours since eating and he had spit up large amounts before that anything is cause for me to say "uh ho, how much is going to come out this time".

Oh, maybe I'm making too much?  He just started to cry after 3 burps and 3 spit ups of different amounts -- I put him in his swing and within minutes his eyes were closing.  Maybe at night he just gets over done by an anxious Momma trying to burp him and get more sleep?

[MLK]

They don't have to spit up large amounts to have reflux - sometimes they can swallow it back down which is even worse because it burns on the way up and down. Does he seem to gag and choke a lot? The colic reflux and crying board has a "reflux 101" check list that is very helpful. Sleeping only in an upright position is a good indicator.

Reflux is awful! Both of mine had it. It is a form of torture until you get it under control. DS1 was controlled with meds only, DS2 had meds first which helped a bit but he also needed the dairy and soy free diet. We are just weaning him off the meds now at 9 months old.

Really try to get a second opinion -  unless you get a sympathetic doc they will just brush you off. If he doesn't have reflux the meds won't do anything and you will know it is something else.

[Mum-of-Two]

OK so last night I thought we were in good shape.

Oliver pooped 3 times during the evening -- all on DH, which was great fun for me!  LOL

He then ate at 9 p.m. and went to sleep nicely, woke at 1 a.m. as scheduled, did a one sided breast feed and was back to sleep!  Yay!  Well, at 3 a.m. he woke up grunting and so uncomfortable.  Without the binky that I kept putting back in his mouth he would have been crying, instead he just wiggled and squirmed and grunted.  I think it looks like he is in pain.

Now, I know this is a no no but I figured I'm awake with him and he's right next to me so... at 3:45 I put him on his belly to sleep.  He went right to sleep and stayed there until 6 a.m.!!!  Holy moly!  Remember, he hasn't eaten since the one sided feed at 1 a.m. too.

I didn't sleep again, mostly out of worry (kept putting my hand on his back and listening for a sigh, which he did from time to time) but I also got up at 4 and had to pump that other side for releif.

He woke up at 6 by himself hungry.  Ate one sided again.  And then the uncomfortable grunting and back arching started again.  This may sound weird but sometimes he is worse when we hold him as he wiggles so much we can't keep up with his body and he ends up arching his back a lot and is constantly moving.  I finally propped myself on a rocking chair and let him sleep belly down on my belly for a short while before his sister woke up at 7:30 -- we're up for the day now.

He's now laying on his changing pad on the floor being entertained by his sister.  Drools of spitup keep coming but nothing major.  He finally seems comfortable (I should note, he passed gas at his last diaper change which seemed to calm him)

OK -- thanks for listening again!!  I wonder why on earth the fuss happens so bad in the middle of the night.  It seems like 2 hours after his middle of the night feed he's just in so much pain and can be that way for hours until he gets the burp or gas out.  The other fussy time is in the evening.  We got lucky yesterday with the 3 big poops, most days aren't that lucky and he's really bad through the evening hours.  Spit up he does, but doesn't seem to give him any relief like poo or gas does -- it just comes any time of day if he has just eaten or not.  And, I do think he spits up and swallows it again quite often.  He makes this funny hiccup squeek noise a lot too that just doesn't sound comfortable at all.

Thats my brain dump, must get to the kids.

[~*~Little Miss Sunshine~*~]

So glad the night was better for Oliver!  Sorry you didn't sleep much but hey, it's better than dealing with a crying baby, no??  Hopefully things will be looking up soon!!!

[Mum-of-Two]

I feel better even with my sore throat just for having watched the little guy sleep soundly.