once perfect sleeper gone crazy...

[Leia and Sabrina's Mom - Jessica]

APOP - Ahhhhhhh....I have done that before!    She rarely needs it though...you have no idea...if she could talk...she would say "mom - I am going down for my nap now."

Anyway - 2:05...asleep by 2:20 ish ....still sleeping....it's 3:37......when do I wake her up?

Bed time is 6:30.

I had no idea why she would keep getting up earlier everyday....it used to be 8:30...and then as some weeks went by it turned into 6:30...cause I pushed up the naps...duh! ok so now what do I do? wake her up??

[Leia and Sabrina's Mom - Jessica]

Anyway - 2:05...asleep by 2:20 ish ....still sleeping....it's 3:37......when do I wake her up?

Bed time is 6:30.

scratch that...she just popped herself up 3:50 on the nose.... 1.5 hour nap

thoughts???

[~Alexa~]

I think a 1.5 hr nap is not so bad! On the contrary, I think it is great!!  But you don't sound so happy about it, why?? Did you expect more?

I think that if she woke up at 3.50 pm from the nap, then 6.30 `pm bedtime will be too early.  I would go for a 7 pm bedtime even 7.15 pm.  What do you think? Your lo is doing 3.5 hr A time, so if we keep the last A time too short, she will be UT and still wake up early.  What's your hunch on this one?

[Leia and Sabrina's Mom - Jessica]

no no... I am very happy.      thank you thank you thank you thank you by the way

It just now leaves me with a few questions.....

I think a 7:15 / 7:30 bedtime is more appropriate (that is what we usually do and she gets up at around 6:30 / 45 or sometimes 7:00.  Start getting her ready before but she should be in bed by 7:15 right?

SO - what time do I wake her in the morning if she doesn't wake herself at 6:30?

The 3.5 easy confuses me a little cause it doesn't work out as perfect as a 3 hour.

AND finally - the dreaded W2S (I am sick over having to do it) but do I still want to do it tonight? argh....

[~Alexa~]

How long have you been doing w2s? At what time? Has it ever worked?

I don't understand what you mean with this

The 3.5 easy confuses me a little cause it doesn't work out as perfect as a 3 hour.

Could you clarify or give me more info so I can answer?

About the bedtime, I would try to keep the last A time 3.,5 hr long, so if it takes her 15 min to fall asleep, then have her in the crib after 3 hr 15 min so that after 3.5 hr she is already asleep.  Does this make sense? 

If she is still sleeping at 6.30 am, then I would wake her up at 7 am.  (It depends on what you want) But I think that 7 am - 7.30 pm day is great.  So I would go for 7 am. 

And remember to add more A time before the am nap tomorrow!

[Leia and Sabrina's Mom - Jessica]

I have never doen W2S before. She has never gotten up in the middle of the night until about 3 weeks ago. she was sick and then it was fine and then the nw came back and have been going on for about 2-3 weeks.

I guess I was saying with the 3 hour easy...it is a perfect 7-7 day. you know all the times work out. With 3.5 you day ends later than it starts right. like 7 -7.5. I am not crazy...just a math/numbers person so it is not as perfect of a routine. I would love a 7-7:30 day. that is pretty much what we had going on before. OK ....so i will get her to bed tonight so she is sleeping by 7:20 - 7:30.

thanks again for everything. just let me know what you think about w2s...i have never done it and I don't know if I should...the last 4 nights however she has gotten up at 3am. i would do it at 2 if you thought I should

[~Alexa~]

So yes, if she is waking at 3 am every night, then go to her room at 2 am, and do w2s.  Stir her at 2 am, and then leave the room.  She will move, but she will not wake up.  Hopefully, by doing this 3 nights in a row, you will break the habit!!

Let me know how your night goes!!
Hugs,
Alexa

[Leia and Sabrina's Mom - Jessica]

thanks again for everything, I hope you are right about w2s. and thanks for all the routine help. i think I have a better idea of what needs to be happening tomorrow.

by the way - i put her in bed at 7:15 and she stood up only once and then I did a firm hand until she fel asleep - only about 5 minutes. let's see if she stays asleep.

thanks again...fingers crossed...

hugs - jessica

[~Alexa~]

Fingers crossed!! Keep me posted!

[Leia and Sabrina's Mom - Jessica]

Unfortunately I have no good news for you this morning. I am distraught actually. I am trying to keep perspective that this is temporary - it is just hard when I can't figure out where or what I did wrong. Last night was the worst of them all. She woke up 4 times. She is fairly easy to get back to sleep as long as you stay with your hand on her in the right position. But why is she waking so much all of a sudden? Is it possible that when this all started a few weeks ago I created a prop by doing the P/D with the firm hand? She ALWAYS went to sleep on her own and now all of a sudden she needs my hand...and she is up every few hours hysterical crying. The funny this is that at 6 am - she doesn't cry hysterical. She knows it is wakey time for the day and just wakes up and stands around for a few minutes before she starts to get agitated.

Last night went something like this:

7:15 bed - asleep by 7:30 at the latest
9:15 NW ( i let DH handle this one cause I really can't do them all) he isn't as quick as I am but she was back down at 10:15 cause he couldn't do it and I had to take over so it took longer than it should have
11:45 NW - back down quick but I feel asleep on her floor with my arm through the crib.
2:15 (I woke up and left and realized it was time to do the W2S...I really half assed it cause she already woke up twice and it seemed pointless at that point)
3:15 NW - back to sleep in 15 mins
4:30 NW - back to sleep in 15 minutes
6:00 wake up

I honestly don't know what to do at this point. It gets worse every night. Did we create a prop by accident? I try not rushing in but she is hysterical if I wait a few minutes. It really seems to be SA ....

Am I doing PD wrong. Should I PD without the hand and leave the room each time? Should I try to do PD with my voice only?? My husband and I are exhausted...he is really sick and can't get better with no sleep....sorry to complain. In the scheme of life this isn't so bad. I know people who would kill to have a baby to keep them up....I just feel like we will never fix it.


She woke at 6 today so I plan to do a 9:30 nap. You said don't push the nap and we were supposed to add 15 minutes so I am keeping that plan.

Let me know what you think.

Thanks! Jessica

[~Alexa~]

(((BIG HUGS Jess))) I know how exhausted you must be!! I agree with you that it could be SA!! I haven't been through it so can't share my experience.  But, I have read that moms do the same that you are doing.  They go inside their lo's room, PD, and talk to their babies.  Or they just lay a hand on their chests.  So I think that you are doing the right thing.  You can try PD, and then do WI/WO.

If she is not crying during the NW, then let her be.  Try to think that this is only temporary.  It is very hard on moms because it is very exhausting.  Men can't help with this b/c los want their mommies, not their daddies, so it is really tiring for moms! But hang in there!! It will get better!! Just don't rock her back to sleep.  Let her know that you are not abandoning her.  Keep doing what you are doing.  PD and lay hand on her.  If she is calm, leave the room, if she cries again, walk in and PD and put your hand on her chest again.  Repeat as many times as necessary!!

You can try to get someone to come over and help you out during the day so you get rest and get ready for the NW.  Maybe a friend, mom, sister, MIL, SIL, anyone who can take your lo for a day so you sleeeeeeeeeeeep all day long and get ready for the night!

Hopefully she will nap better today and that will help with the NW.  If she is going to bed OT, then that also encourages NW.

Keep that nap at 9.30 am for today, and let me know how it goes.
Big big hugs,
Alexa

[~Alexa~]

I just wanted to add something to my pp. 

I don't remember if I've asked you this, but does she have a lovie?

Is your lo teething?

May she be cold or hot or in pain in the night?

[Leia and Sabrina's Mom - Jessica]

Thanks for keeping up with the messages. So in response to some of your thoughts....

no lovie - she is a thumb sucker so that actually really helps.
she isn't teething at the moment but I do think that she might have been cold that last two nights. i was sleeping on her floor and it is freezing in there and you know she has no blanket...just a sleep sack. I may switch out her cold mist humidifier for a warm mist.

I am glad that you think I am doing PD correctly. I thought that I might have been doing it wrong and creating a problem...like she needs my hand to fall asleep. but if she is waking cause she is mobile or just realizes that I am not there...it could just be a phase that will evenutally go away.

regarding the day - the thing that stinks about this situation is that I work three days a week. I always have so this isn't new to her. She is with my parents two of those days at my house and she is so happy with them. SHe is with my husband the other day because it is a weekend day. I am actually hoping to leave my job soon (i am not making any money) but we are waiting for a house loan to come through and I can't quit just yet. i don't know if the situation would bother me so much if I could just say - "i'm a mom and this is my job....and being up is my job..." but instead I have this other job that I am in limbo with and it is taking a toll on my psyche. I want to just be a full time mom. I adore my LO and I am frustrated with this other part of my life.

ANYWAY - here is how today is going so far....clearly she is really tired cause she had a long night...

w - 6:00 am
b/f 6:20
solids 7:45 (we got a late start but she was fine)
nap - she was exhausted by 9:05 so I had her asleep by 9:15...I know I wasn't supposed to move her time up but she was exhausted. yesterday was 3 hours and today was 3h15m so I did atleast a bit of what we had planned. I put her in and only did PD once and left after just a minute or two of hand on chest.
woke herself at 10:50 for a perfect total of 1.5 hours 
b/f at 11
solids at 12:30
walk outside in baby bjorn with dh until 1:55
2:05 wind down (she really was tired but she needed diaper change) - this is exactly the same time as yesterday
helped her get to sleep like 2 times (standing up) but hand only on chest for 3 minutes or so....asleep by 2:20 and still asleep. fingers crossed that she does the same nap as yesterday until 3:50

have I thanked you yet? I barely know you and you are one of the only people keeping me sane and who really understands.

I think I tend to over think things and I should just realize that this is a phase...and i love my amazing little child...I will just be a little more tired for a few weeks/months/years....etc.

What do you think??

((((big hugs))))) jessica

ps - are you in the UK?

[~Alexa~]

Hi Jess!! I know exactly how you are feeling.  I work every weekday, but only for 1.5 hrs.  I have to leave my house at 7 am, and I come back at 9.30 am (I'm a teacher, so right now, I'm just giving one class) When I started my lo on solids, I felt so bad b/c I had to go to work and the nanny was going to give my lo his breakfast! It may sound stupid, but I was very sad I wasn't going to be there with him! So I totally understand where you are coming from when you say you would like to stay home with DD.  I hope that you get the house loan very soon so you can quit your job and stay home with your lo.  I also think that you are very fortunate to have your parents close, so they can take care of her.  She doesn't have to go to childcare, and she stays with people who really really love her and care for her.   

When I started sleep training, I had no sleep for around 2 months.  My lo would wake up every hour to feed in the night, and  the only way for him to fall asleep was on my chest So I was sleep deprived, so I called my MIL, she came one day, I left the house and my lo with her, and then I went to my sister's house to sleep ALL DAY LONG!! Then, I had the energy for coming back to my lo and have him get some sleep.  Also, when I didn't sleep, I was soo grumpy with my lo.  Every single thing made me shout at him (I know, it sounds horrible, he was only 2 mo)! So I took a break from sleep training and then I came back with a fresh mind.  I found this site, and since then, I have been getting online every day. Moms around here helped me soo much.  So I'm here to hold your hand while you get through this.    I promise it will get better very very soon!

I think you did the right thing by putting your lo down at 9.15 am, she was exhausted!! You followed her cues, and that worked b/c she slept for 1.5 hr!! It sounds great!

Now, how long was her pm nap? If she woke up at 4 pm (like yesterday) have her in bed at 7.15 pm.  (The same as yesterday) Or do you think she went to bed OT yesterday? Did she fight bedtime?

Introducing a lovie would be a good idea. It doesn't matter she is a thumb sucker.  Lovies can help when going through SA.  So choose a stuffed animal and sleep with it for 3 nights so that it gets some mommy smell, and then give it to her at every nap and bedtime.  SHe may ignore it at first, but as time goes by, she will get attached to it.  Lovies work wonders, so try it.  It may help you with SA!

Big hugs Jess!! Hang in there!! You are not alone?
Alexa

p.s  I'm not in the UK, I live on the other side of the pond!! (Atlantic Ocean)

[Leia and Sabrina's Mom - Jessica]

Wow! I completely understand how you feel about the solid food thing. The first time my husband gave my daughter a bottle...I had to leave the room. We did it so in case there were times that we wanted to go out (and when I went back to work) she would take a bottle. SO - I really know where you are coming from. HE is YOUR baby and you should be able to give him breakfast. I am glad to have my parents. They are crazy about her...and she is crazy about them.

I feel better today bec. my DH and I had a long time and I got some perspective. I need to remember that my baby is wonderful and amazing and she is a baby. And my job is to be mommy and if she wakes up and needs my help...not such a big deal. There are a lot worse things. Right? Someday she won't want me around at all and I will wonder why I wished these days away.

I hate that I have ever yelled at my LO but you are not alone in that respect. I did it once when she was little little and she wouldn't stop crying. She was so tired but I couldn't figure out how to get her to sleep. That is when I started BW. (And when my DH gave her a pacifier - which for some reason I was against....of course she went right to sleep and my DH was like "see hon.") I was so mad. And then recently in the middle of the night...I shhhhhed her really loud and yelled "LEIA!" It is really hard to think clearly when you have no sleep. I do feel better when I am on BW forum. It always helps. You have been great.

So - anyway - my pm nap....same exact time as yesterday 2:20 asleep but she woke at 3. So since she got up at 6 I decided that she would have to be to bed by 6:20 or so. Here is the pickle...she was exhausted by 4:30. It is because she was up all night and because her second nap should have been about 45 minutes longer. I wasn't sure if I should have done a catnap (she used to always do them. 3 LONG naps and catnap, then two LONG naps and catnap, now she is just down to the two naps....I think she would be better if they were both long). Anyway - I got her ready for bed starting at 5:50 and asleep by 6:20. She did struggle for about 10 minutes....and she woke up already for the first NW at 7:15. I might be in for a long night. My DH and I were thinking about sleeping on her floor tonight just to keep ourselves a bit sane. Is that a bad idea?

I will intro a lovie...i just worry about SIDS and the not sleeping with toys and stuff.

I am hanging in....just glad that I mentally got some perspective. I am here to do the dirty work....I am the one that gets all the best smiles and she laughs for NO one else...so if I have to do the nighttime stuff - so be it. It will go back to normal eventually.

I am in the US too...something you wrote just made me think UK. That is great that you are a teacher and they allow you only to teach one class. I am switching careers and hoping to be teaching by September. it is a great job to have when you have LO's.

Let me know what you think about the PM situation....

Jessica