5 month old takes 30 minute naps... Help!?!

[jennifer1980]

I'm new here (just read the BW book and LOVED IT!) and am relieved that maybe someone can help as I'm becoming desperate. 

My 5 month old son (20lbs.. big boy!) sleeps very well at night, usually 12 hours straight from 7pm - 7am.  But the daytime is impossible.  He naps for 30 minutes on the dot.  Then he wakes up crying, grumpy and tired after every nap!  So we cannot stay on a 3 hour EASY plan because he never naps long enough to make the 3 hour window.  So as the day progresses, I cannot hold him off from eating for another hour after he wakes up because he's grumpy and hungry.  I try to hold him off, but usually end up feeding him a bit early.  Then I watch for drowsy signs and the minute I see them coming on, we head in and wind down for the nap.  Sometimes I push him in the stroller to calm him for 30 mins before he drifts off, bc this seems to calm him more than rocking/quiet time/lights out/lullabies,etc. 

It just goes downhill as the day goes on... Help!  Here was today's schedule:

E. 7:00 am wake up and feed
A. 7:00 - 8:45
S. 8:45 - 9:15 (HERE'S WHERE I HAVE TO HOLD HIM OFF FOR 45 MINS TIL HE CAN EAT AGAIN.. AND HE'S GRUMPY THE WHOLE TIME!  THUS, BY THE TIME HE EATS AGAIN, HE'S ALREADY BEEN UP FOR 45 MINS, AND SO HIS NEXT A TIME IS CUT SHORT BECAUSE IT'S TIME TO SLEEP AGAIN.)

E. 10am
A.  10:00 - 11:15
S.  11:15 - 11:55  (NOW I'VE GOT TO HOLD HIM OFF FROM EATING FOR AN HOUR IF I WANT TO STICK TO THE 3 HOUR PLAN..)

E.  12:45
A.  12:45 - 1:55
S.  1:55 - 2:25  (MUST TRY TO HOLD HIM OFF YET AGAIN.. AND AGAIN HE IS DISGRUNTLED!)

E.  3:30
A.  3:30 - 4:45
S.  4:45 - 5:15  (BY THIS TIME OF DAY I CAN NO LONGER HOLD HIM OFF, I JUST FEED HIM EVEN THOUGH 3 HOURS HAVEN'T PASSED SINCE HIS LAST FEED..)

E.  5:15
A.  5:15 - 7pm
E.  7pm
S.  7:15pm

Thank you so much for your help ladies.. I really need you!   

[jana224]

Hi and welcome!
You will find lots of good info on this site.
First of all, looking at your routine, I'd say the first A time of your day is too long.  Most babies have their shortest A time first thing in the morning.  If he's giving you a short nap after 1hr 45 minutes A time that means overtired/"OT", so then I'd plan to have him heading for his first nap after 1h 15 minutes A time, and see what happens.  Some babies need to be back down for their first nap after only an hour of bein awake, so you'll have to play around with this.  This first nap, however, sets the tone for the rest of your day because once OT, it's hard to get out of it.

Also, after 4 months, babies on BW move onto a 4 hour EASY, so feeding him every 3 hours, or sooner, is probably not necessary.  If anything, he's overtired from lack of good daytime sleep, so he's crying and upset, and feeding comforts him.  If he's able to go 12 hours at night without eating, then he likely doesn't need it every 2-3 hours during the day.

Are you trying to extend naps with shh/pat or pu/pd?  What's your wind down routine like? 

Also, for some babies, by the time you see drowsy signs, it's too late, they're already OT.  I'd start keeping a log of how much awake time your LO can handle before you see tired signs, and then try getting him wound down before that time so that he's in the crib by the time he's tired.

Is he swaddled?  Taking a soother? 

Jana

[~inbalance~]

Hi there!  I agree with pp, he is probably ready for a 4 hour easy and it sounds like the 30 min naps are OT.  I really struggled with short naps at that age too.  It took me awhile, first I worked to get my LO out of the OT rut, then it was a matter of playing around with his A times until I got it right.  It's hard, because as they are growing their A times are constantly changing, so once you think you've got it, they're ready for tweaking and more A time!  I agree too that the first A time needs to be shorter to avoid OT, for us if we can get that first A time right we get a good first nap and then the rest of the day is usually good, but if we mess it up from the start it is really hard to get back on track for the day.

At 5 months my LO could only take 1.5 hours A time for that first one.  I would try to keep him up for 2 and he would be OT and I always got short naps.  After we worked out that first A time and his morning nap improved, I was able to start extending his A times a bit more.

It sounds confusing but it all comes together in the end!  I would try putting your LO on the 4 hour easy, starting with 1.5 hours A time for that first one, and work on getting that first nap lengthened.  From there hopefully it will be easier to work out the rest of your routine.

Good luck!

[jennifer1980]

Hi ladies, THANK YOU SO MUCH!  I think you were right on because he napped for ONE HOUR this morning!!!!!!!  I completely agree he must be OT and that's throwing the entire day off.   

Here's what happened today:
 
He was up at 7am, I fed him in the rocking chair in his room with no noise, and then I noticed that he was pretty calm so I continued to just rock him in the rocking chair after the bottle and see what happened.. He was yawning, and just laying there kind of dazed so we continued to rock for about 30 mins and then I put him back down in his crib at 7:45.. I left the room and watched on the monitor.. I couldn't believe it, he cooed happily in his crib for 30 more minutes (NO CRYING?!!) and then fell asleep at 8:20..... and stayed asleep til 9:20!!!  OMG, Halleluja!! 

The rest of the day got a little chaotic bc it's Saturday and we had errands to run so we couldn't stay on track the way I wanted to, but I'm so excited for Monday when I can dedicate the entire day to figuring his naps out.

Jana, to answer your questions, we winddown by going in the nursery (which he usually cries when I take him in there bc I think he knows what's coming..) but I close the blinds, rock him and hum/sing a lullaby.  We stopped swaddling a couple months ago bc he's so big and always wriggled free.  He also outright rejects the pacifier.. always has.  But he's now found his thumb which soothes him a lot.

I have so many questions!! 

1) Do you think that I put him down at the right time even though he didn't actually fall asleep for 30 more minutes?

2) Since he woke up from that first nap at 9:20, if I were on the 4 hour EASY I would have to keep him occupied until 11.. so what should I do during that time??  Hold him off or just feed him?

3)  How long do you think his second A time should be? 

I think you were so right on ladies, that he is the type of baby that once I see the signs it's already too late.  I'm SO THRILLED that I found this website.. I can't thank you enough. 

[jana224]

Ok, glad some of that was helpful to you.
To answer your questions, I'd say:
1) It's probably ok to let him settle himself to sleep, 30 minutes is a bit long, but if he's happy and enjoying some quiet independent time, then it shouldn't be a problem.  My DD usually takes about 15 minutes of quiet laying by herself before falling asleep.  I've also learned a critical mistake:  just because they wake up doesn't mean they're ready to be "up".  If he wakes up mid-nap, but isn't doing a 'real' cry, then leave him for a bit to see if he'll re-settle himself.  I learned the hard way that I was taking her out of the crib too early and if left alone for a bit, she'd put herself back to sleep.  The key here is knowing the difference between a real cry, a mantra cry, or of course, hopefully he just wakes no crying at all! 

2) The 4 Hour EASY doesn't have to be totally set by the clock, so if he eats at 7am, but you genuinely notice he's hungry again at 10:45am, then feed him.  But generally, if he woke from his nap at 9:20, then you'd spend 1-1.5 hours of activity time:  tummy time, exersaucer, walk in stroller or snugli, this might also be a good time to run around and do errands.  Personally, I'd try to distract him until close to the next time to eat, but of course, be willing to feed if he's giving you clear signs.

3) So it looks like the first A time was 7-8:15am, one hour and fifteen, with a long wind down.  Maybe try the next one for 1.5-1.75 hours, but plan on some time for him to just be in the crib included in that A time.

A few things pop out for me:
-rocking may starting to be a prop if you find you have to rock him that long...  I'd work towards more opportunities to do what he did today:  quietly put himself to sleep.
-if he's too big for a swaddle, I'd suggest a sleep sack/sleeping bag.  Keeps them nice and cozy and feeling secure without limiting movement.

good luck
Jana

[~inbalance~]

I also made the mistake of going to DS too early when he woke midnap instead of letting him resettle himself.  Once I stopped interrupting him, he starting going back to sleep on his own, and then after he started doing that he starting napping 1.5-2 hour straight. 

Once I figured out what that mantra cry sounded like and left him too it, both daytime and nighttime sleep improved. 

[jennifer1980]

Today was horrible.   40 minute naps.   My LO wakes up so grumpy and stays OT all day.   

Here's what happened today...

E 6:30 wake and eat
A 6:30-7:30
S 7:30 - 8:10 (at this point he woke up crying.. I didn't know if it was a real cry or a mantra cry.  I let him go on for about 30 mins and he didn't stop so I went and got him.  How do I know if his nap is done??  Should I have left him longer?)

A 8:10 - 9:30

E 9:30
A 9:30 - 10 (he was so fussy/sleepy that this was just a wind-down to his next nap)
S 10:00 - 10:40 (he woke up crying again.. same thing.) 
A 10:40 - 12:15 (he was crying the whole time and I was trying to console him.  finally i put him in the car and went to the grocery store.  I read a post in the FAQ that said do anything you have to do to keep the OT demons away.  I knew my baby needed to sleep so I caved.   )

S 12:15 - 1:30 (in the carseat, he SLEEPS!)

E 1:30
A 1:30 - 3
S 3 - 3:40 (in his crib!  but 40 minutes AGAIN!)

He woke up crying and the rest of the day was a disaster.  I just don't know what to do for my baby.. I can see how much he NEEDS the sleep and I'm trying so hard and it's just not working!   

Should I just leave him in the crib when he wakes from his first nap of the day?  I think I need to go read up on the mantra cry. 

[~inbalance~]

I'm sorry your day was so horrible!  But keep working on it, things will get better!  Have you thought about trying to transition to a 4 hour EASY yet? 

I would be inclined to think that your LO should have a bit longer A time in the morning, it looked like only an hour, so he might have actually been UT and that is why when he woke he really didn't want to go back to sleep.  That used to happen to me, I would have an UT first nap which would be short, and because it was short all the subsequent naps were OT and short because he never got a good nap in to start.  It is frustrating    My personal rule of thumb is I let DS fuss and cry for 15 mins or so (as long as it's not urgent crying of course), and if by then he hasn't resettled then I know he isn't going to.

Don't feel bad about taking him in the car to nap, at that point he just needed some sleep.  I remember once DS was sooo tired, he was just screaming and cranky and I just couldn't console him, so I threw him in the stroller (not literally of course  ) and took him for a walk.  When I saw him drift off I walked and walked so he could sleep, even though it was like -20 degrees outside (friggin' cold!  He was all bundled up and cozy, but I was freezing!).  You do what you gotta do in those situations.

See how tomorrow goes, sometimes it takes some time experimenting with those A times to find what works.  I had finally got it down and now it looks like my LO is ready for longer A times and is back to short naps too...I'm at a loss but that's all part of the fun!  Right?