Where do I begin?

[Barbaara]

No such luck! Had to get up at 1:45.  She fell asleep pretty quickly after that.  And no EW, but we never get them when she wakes up in the middle of the night.

1 arm out was ok, so we're going to do the same tonight.    I don't know about the lovey yet, maybe I could just put it in bed with her.  I'm a bit scared that it will be a diversion and that it will prevent her to fall asleep.   

Yesterday she was in bed after 1h30 but like I said it took her about an hour to fall asleep.  Maybe I should try to stretch it a little bit, but she always looks sooo tired at night. 

Have to go, I'm at work and our meeting is starting! Have a good day!

Barbara
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[mokey_cat]

Great news about not EW.  Kind of rubbish that she wants to poop during the night thought!!  Maybe when is on solids, you could give her some foods that help her poop (like prunes or something) 1st thing in the morning to encourage her to go during the day  .

Also great news about the 1 arm!!  I think your LO will soon be unswaddled and will sleep better for it especially if she is fighting it.

Yeah, thats a good idea about leaving a lovey in the cot.  That way she will come across it on her own.  I actually put a few thinkg in her cot but she ignored them all so I have been putting a muslin cloth in her hand when she is going to bed.  Im not sure she is attached to it yet but I am hoping she will soon  .

We had a good day today - another 2 long naps so I hope we are back on track!!

Poop free vibes for you tonight 

X

[Barbaara]

Thanks for those vibes! I hope they're strong enough! 

Glad you're getting better naps again, makes you feel a lot better doesn't it.   

My DD had her immunizations yesterday and she's having a bit of a fever today.  She's been half waking a lot after putting her to bed, but I've only had to go in and settle her once, so she's really doing ok on her own.  Her 1 arm is out again and I've got the feeling it's the right thing to do for now.   

I'm off to bed!

x

[Barbaara]

Hi Laura,

Those vibes were definitely strong enough!!  Poo free nights since Thursday night!  That night we still had a NW but that was because of a fever and last night was STTN.  Although I think I heard her a couple of times between 3 and 4 am.

Naps have gone haywire again though.    I'm thinking she's a little OT and it's almost as if she doesn't know how to transition to next sleep cycle anymore.    She's also crying a lot more and very hard to put down.  Last night it took us 1h30 and the night before 1h! Today for naps she's been putting up a fight as well.  She woke up after 35-40 min during her AM nap and I took her into bed with me, because I'm soo tired and she slept another 45 mins.  I think she was still tired after that though.

If it's ok, I'm going to post my routines from yesterday and today, maybe you see something that needs improving.

Yesterday (Friday):
(on Thursday night it took us an hour to get her to fall asleep, so asleep by 8:30 pm instead of 7:35 pm + NW of 1h due to fever)
7:15 Wake & up
E: 7:25
A: 7:15 - 9:10
S: 9:10 - 10:40
E: 11:15
A: 10:40 - 12:55
S: 12:55 - 1:50
A: 1:50 - 2:45 (back to bed by 14:15 because she was crying but took 1/2h)
S: 2:45 - 3:30 (woke her up otherwise feed would have been pushed back too far)
E: 3:40
A: 3:30 - 5:20
S: 5:20 - 6:00
E: 6:55
A: 6:00 - 20:45 (in bed by 19:15 but didn't want to sleep; lots of crying)
S: 8:45 (finally!!!!)
DF: 11:30

Today

7:15 Wake and up
E: 7:30 (threw up 3 times so had to feed her some more at 9:10)
A: 7:15 - 9:25 (was showing tired signs after only 1h20, but ignored them.  Shouldn't have because was OT i think)
S: 9:25 - 10:05 (tried to extend but kept crying really hard)
S: 10:30 - 11:15 (in bed with me)
E: 11:30
A: 11:15 - 12:50 (in bed by 12:15 because crying and not happy at all during A; took 35 min to fall asleep)
S: 12:50 - 1:30 (unable to extend, but really wasn't in the mood for it either)
E: 3:00
A: 1:30 - 3:45 (2h15 after only 45min nap and no crying and was asleep after 10 minutes?)
S: 3:45 -   (asleep for 15 min now)

Don't really know what's going on.  I think the past 2 nights left her a bit OT as she only slept about 10 each and during the day only about 3h30 - 3h45.  This morning I think she was OT, but not any more this afternoon?

Could you help me out with this one pleaaaaase? 

Barbara
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[mokey_cat]

Hi Barbara.  I will try to help out and hopefully we can get naps back on track!!

I went through exactly the same thing a week or so ago!! 

First thing I can see is that on Friday, the catnap ended at 6.00 and she was in bed for the night at 7.15pm.  The whole day she had a total of 4hrs naps so I would have went with an 7.45/8pm bedtime for this day as even if you get a 11 hour night - that is still a total of 15 hours which is what I aim for (usually its 14-15hrs total sleep for us).  So maybe she was not tired enough for bed yet?  I know that my LO cried a LOT when she is put to bed and is UT and it takes a lot of effort to get her to sleep.

The next day, I noticed that your morning A time was longer than the day before (2hr10 when it was 1hr55 the day previously) and I think that due to the later night, she may have been a bit OT for this nap but as you managed to get more sleep from her by taking her into bed (great one - I love doing it  - so much easier than shhpat when you are tired!) - I think she had a decent enough sleep here.  So the next nap I think was too early (only 1hr35 A time) so maybe UT which is why you couldnt extend.  The fact that she had a long A time after that nap, then went to bed easy defo makes me think it was UT!!  So after a broken nap like the one at 9.25-10.05 then 10.30-11.15, I would have kept your normal A time.

What A time is your LO doing just now?  So tomorrow I would keep the 1hr55 morning A time as long as she has a reasonable night.  If she has a short nap, you can either try to extend or just let her get up and try to judge by her mood if it was OT or UT.  My LO will wake early from a nap crying but once up she is happy for her full A time so then I understand that she needs more A time!!  If she then does a long A time after a short nap and then has a long nap, then increase that A time by maybe 10/15 minutes the next day.

I hope you can make sense of this as Im rambling a bit.  From looking at your routine I would say she was OT from the late night but then the next afternoon she was UT from the too early nap.

Once we get the A's sorted, everything will go back to normal!!

X

[Barbaara]

Thanks Laura!

I think you're right, she might need more A time.  She was still sleeping after 1h30 when I woke her up from her last nap.  Otherwise it would have been too close to bedtime.

This is how today's going:

EW: 6:30 but I think she went back to sleep a little bit and woke again at 7
Up: 7:05
E: 7:15
A: 7:05 - 9:15
S: 9:15 - 10:15

We had 1 NW last night, but she only chatted for about 5-10 minutes or so.

She just woke up from her nap crying and I thought she had succesfully transitioned in to next sleep cycle.    She looks ok now, she's not over the moon happy.  So I'm thinking she needed a little more A time?  My DH was looking after her, because I was in the bathroom and he had been doing really active things all the time.  I went downstairs after 2h of A time and all of a sudden she really started crying like she was OT.  I was so angry with my DH!  Here I am always trying to make sure she doesn't get OS and we do really low key activities towards the end of A time and he just doesn't care!    I'm sure if he kept it more low key, she would have managed a slightly longer A time and therefore a longer nap.

We're going out to visit some friends in 2h, so napping won't be great I'm afraid.  That's why I wanted this nap to be a really good one... 

How are you doing?

Barbara
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[mokey_cat]

Hi Barbara!!

Yeah, I would defo think more A time is needed especially if she is chatting during the night.  That always happens to us when she needs more A time.  It also maybe causing the EW's too but at least she is going back to sleep for a bit  .  I think she did successfully pass into the next sleep cycle but had enought sleep after 1hr if you know what I mean, which is why she woke.  A 1 hr nap is still ok I think.  But Im sure its because she was UT so I would try adding A time really slowly - maybe 10 mins tomorrow morning and see if she goes back to napping longer.

I also think she could maybe have managed a bit more A time but I think she maybe did get a bit OS with your DH!!  (dont worry, they are ALL the same  ).  Let me know how the rest of your day went!!

We are back on track.  We had 2 longish naps today (1hr25 and 1hr15) even though we had LOUD visitors so I was pretty happy with that.  Of course, her pm nap ended too early to go without a catnap but too late for her to be tired enough for a catnap!!  So I had to walk for ages with her in the pushchair to get her to sleep for a total of 20 mins  .  But still a pretty good day  .  Her 2 bottom teeth are just under the gum too so I think they will be through soon.  She is very grumpy because of it!!

Anyway, I hope your day was ok & let me know how you get on with increasing A time!!

X

[Barbaara]

OMG!!!!! Just spent 2h20 getting her so fall asleep!!!!   

Here's today:

Up: 7:05
E: 7:15
A: 7:05 - 9:15
S: 9:15 - 10:15
E: 11:15
A: 10:15 - 1:05 (a little long but we were visiting friends)
S: 1:04 - 2:25 (fussing after 35 min, settled on her own)
E: 3:05
A: 2:25 - 4:55 (was going to let her have about 1h, but woke up on her own crying)
E: 7:15
S: 9:55 (in bed by 7:35 and was almost asleep after 15 minutes and I had left her room, but kept waking up and almost falling asleep again over and over and over and over again!  Eventually started crying because OT I think. You could really see her trying to fall asleep, but I looked like something was bothering her.  Ended up giving her the dummy, because it had  been going on for so long.  Took 5 tries with dummy because she kept spitting it out.  )

I have no idea what that was about.  Shh/pat does NOT work for us anymore.  PU/PD also doesn't work, because when she was crying she would cry even harder when I picked her up and when I put her back down again she settled, eyes started to close but then crying again. 

I didn't look like she was in any pain, but couldn't get comfortable.

Just had my dinner and I'm off to bed now, because I'm expecting a rocky night! 

BTW, glad your days are smoother now!    Now you have got the time to help me out!   

x

[mokey_cat]

Oh dear!!!  2hr20 is a looooooong time to get her to fall asleep!!  Are you sure it was not pain?  That is exactly what happened with Holly 1 day and after I gave her some calpol (paracetamol), I was eventually able to get her to sleep.  Your LO is around the age that teething may begin to bother her so although she is not in agony, its pretty uncomfortable for them.  Do you think she could be teething?  Or have you started her on solids that could have upset her tummy?  Your day did not look too bad up until then (maybe a bit shorter naps than usual but I really dont think that would have caused that at night!!).  How was she the rest of the night?

X

[Barbaara]

I think her sleeping bag might have been bothering her.  I noticed it last night, but it didn't really register until this morning.    The zipper is right up by her chin and I noticed it pressing against the underside of her chin.  Today I took a closer look at it and it's kind of sharp, so it probably hurt her a little bit.
After she fell asleep she woke up screaming at 11:40.  We gave her the paci for a couple of seconds and then she was asleep again.

I bought another sleeping bag today and she went down for her catnap and bedtime like an angel.    She just woke up screaming again after about 1h15, but I was able to settle her quickly.  Fingers crossed!!  i don't know why she's doing that though. 

Anyway, as of today she's going to daycare full time, so I won't be having much of a routine from now on.  Kind of scary really.  Now I'm forced to let go more. 

She'll be 5 months old on Thursday.  It's all going soooo fast!!

Naps still going strong? 

Barbara
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[mokey_cat]

Good detective skills!!!  I am sure that would have been causing her some discomfort!!  My Lo is the same in the car seat if she has a coat with a zipper on it that is right at her chin (it took me pulling over on the motorway to discover it though!!)

Im not sure whats going on about the screaming after going to bed - usually that indicates OT but she is not doing a huge A time so I don't think that could be the cause. As long as she is easy to settle I wouldnt worry too much about it.  Come to think of it, Holly done that 2 nights ago but I only had to apply pressure on her chest for a minute to settle her and then she sttn so I was very thankful!!

In a way it might be a relief not to have to worry about routine so much from now on!!  Hopefully she will sleep well at night following her days at daycare  . 

Our naps are OK.  They are getting shorter though but not 45 mins!!  More like 1hr10/1hr20 so Im not sure what that means.  I would much rather she had lovely 2 hour naps so I could get the housework done  .  Also, we are having EW's so I would like to drop the catnap which is a nightmare to get her to sleep for anyway!!  Always something!!  I am returning to work at the start of July too so will also have to let go a bit  .  I am kind of looking forward to it.

Hope your LO sleeps well tonight 

X

[mokey_cat]

Hi Barbara

How are things going with your LO?  Is she settling better at nights?

X

[Barbaara]

Hi Laura,

Monday night she settle just fine, but Tuesday night it took us about an hour again and I gave her the paci for a couple of minutes again.  At that point it seems like the only thing that will setlle her.  She was OT by the time I put her in bed, because she's only slept 1h40 in daycare.    I gave her a longer catnap, but didn't want to compromise bedtime, but she still ended up OT.

Yesterday she slept more in daycare and I was able to go without a catnap.  She ended up having a 3h Atime  (last 25 minutes in dark room for her feed and wind down so fortunately no OS) That was a little bit too long andI had to hold her arm down for about 10 minutes, but then she slept until 6:50 this morning.    We get her up for the day at 7 so that's just fine.

In daycare they noticed she's not able to go 4h between feeds anymore.  Strangely she only eats about 3.5 - 4 oz in the morning after going 9h without food.  When she's at home there's never been a problem, but over the last 2-3 days they had to move her bottle forward 30 - 45 minutes.  So I decided to wean her off DF and hopefully she'll start taking more in the mornings.

Everything okay with you guys?

Barbara
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[mokey_cat]

We sometimes find that Holly will only take a small feed int he morning too - its very confusing!!  I have got all that to look forward to!!  She goes to daycare in July so am fully expecting an OT LO every night!!

We are OK.  Having some issues with feeding and also she is very grumpy during the days.  Im not sure if its teething or sore tummy from solids as I skipped her breakfast to see if she would take her next bottle (she keeps refusing it) and she was in a better mood so am a bit concerned about the solids now.  SHe has been so cranky for the last 3 hours and it really upsets me as nothing I do can keep her amused  .

Its always something!!!

That was pretty good going to get no NW/EW after a 3 hour A time!!  She seems to be able to handle longer A's!!  Is she textbook/angel baby??  Holly is textbook so is able to cope with long A's without too much hassle.  Is when she is UT that I get all the problems  .

X

[Barbaara]

Ooooh, your new pic is sooo cute!! 

Well, our nights are a bit confusing over the past couple of days.  On Thursday she fell asleep after 1h40 A time, but I took her 20 mins and I had to give her the paci as she wouldn't settle down.  She woke up at 20:45 and I had to give the paci yet again.    I spite of having a CN I think she was still OT.

Yesterday morning we got a EW at 6:20 but we left her until 7 am.  That afternoon we didn't do a CN because she'd slept 1h35 in daycare (from 14:50 until 16:25).  She was in bed by 19:20 but was OT so took about 25 mins for her to fall asleep WITH paci.  So ended up with A time of 3h20 although I aimed for 3h) Then she woke up again at 21:45 and only settled with paci. 

Today was the strangest of all: EW at 6, fell asleep, awake at 6:35, up at 7.  45 min AM nap after 2h30 (wanted to wait longer but started crying, rubbing eyes and yawning).  Then 1h30 nap after again 2h30 A time?  First yawn when I put her in bed.  In the afternoon we went out to visit some friends and we were counting on her having a CN during ride home, but didn't sleep at all.  Put her in bed at 7, was asleep by 7:05 without paci after 4h50 A time.    Woke up after 1h and needed paci to settle.  I'm curious as to how the rest of her night is going to be...

I'm guessing those EWs are caused by OT don't you think?  I just don't have any control over how much she sleeps in daycare.    I try to give them guidelines when to put her in bed, but as my DD is not the only child they have to mind, they're just not able to give her right A times.  And it's so hard to judge how tired she is when we get home.  Oh well, I guess this too shall pass! 

Have been reading your thread and your LO's getting ready to drop CN apparently.  When my DD starts to sleep a bit better in daycare, she'll be doing that really soon as well I think.  She's already doing a lot more A time than what's she's 'supposed' to do, just like your LO I guess.

Barbara
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