not eating but still waking at night

[*Jo*]

Hi, my lo is eating small amounts during the day (i simply cant get him to take more, he just refuses it) but is waking between 4-5.30am for a feed (he used to sleep 11 hours straight at night without waking) this has been happening for just over a week now. Its not habitual waking cos its at different times and he always takes a large feed when we give it to him. He obviously isnt getting enough during the day to be waking for this feed but i cant get him to take more... what do i do?

[KathrynK]

Is he on 3hr EASY still?
Can you post your routine?
How much does he typically take at each feed? Has his intake actually decreased recently?
What flow teats is he on?
Lots of Q's!! we will try to help x

[*Jo*]

Yep he is on 3 hour easy but today he wouoldnt eat every three hours.
he is on med flow teats, the ones for three months +
He usually typically takes 120-140mls a feed but this can vary.

Todays routine went like this:

E 5.15am 130mls
straight back to sleep

Awake and Eat:8am 70mls (start of the day)
A
S 9.20 to 10.20

E 10.50 90mls
A (i think he was overstimulated in this A time by a visitor)
S 11.45 to 12.20 (wouldnt resettle after doing shh/pat for 45mins)

E 1.15 180mls
A
S 1.40 to 2.50 then resettled from 3.00 to 4.25

E 5pm 150mls
A
S 5.40 to 6.40

6.50 bath
E 7.20 100mls
S 7.50

and now i will do a dreamfeed in about an hour which last night he took 160mls at.

Thanks in advance for all your help

[TDR'smom]

Your lo is still very young and at 2 months it is pretty common to still need a feed for their little bellies!

Chances are it is a growth spurt.  How long has he been waking?  Did it just start?

[*Jo*]

This has been going on for nearly two weeks now, last night he woke up at 3am! thats the earliest so far.

Today he took 90mls at 7.30 then only 30mls at 10.30 and now at 1.30 hes only taken 90mls again and gone down for a nap, i thought he would be famished by 1.30 seeing as he has had so little to eat but he wasnt... i feel like im going backwards! i just want to cry!

[*Jo*]

Hes also had three bowel movements today (for the first time ever, he usually only has one a day) and the last one was explosive diarrehea like so maybe he has an upset tummy? DH also said he did some floaties poos in the bath tonight, so that makes four bowel movements. we have just changed his formula three days ago and i was thinking it was making him gassier. Im gonna go down to the supermarket and get a different formula and see if that improves his feeding.

My health nurse said he should be taking 875mls a day but today hes only taken 490mls and hes only got the dreamfeed left which means he will wake through the night to make up the difference. Should i only give him say 50mls if he wakes in the night to encourage him to take more at his first wake up feed at 7am?

[KathrynK]

When Alex is poorly (cold, upset tummy, teething, anything) he goes off his bottles completely. So it could be that if you think his tummy's poorly.

Why did you change his formula? It is highly likely to be the change that's upset his stomach. Their little digestive systems are so sensitive. Alex is on a special formula for his slight reflux- when he was 16 weeks we tried him on the ordinary formula and he seemed fine for the first couple days but then he started refluxing badly and it upset his tummy- his sleep went down the toilet, we had multiple NW, he stopped feeding well, etc etc...... After 3 days we changed him back on to the special formula but it took at least a week to get him back on track again.

If he's feeling poorly, he could be waking in the night because his tummy's hurting and then's once he's awake he's thinking "oh, I'm hungry, waaaah" But it's not actually the hunger that's causing the NW, kwim?
hope this helps, am just thinking out loud! 

[*Jo*]

hmmm that makes sense but ive been given so much differing advice from so many health professionals i just dont know what to do anymore. Ive gone back to normal formula (ive been through 6 different kinds of formula so far just trying to find the right one) but just a different brand (heinz) so im gonna try that tonight. My health nurse said the only thing changing formula will do is it might make him constipated, well hes certainly not that!

People keep telling me i should be grateful i have such a good baby and not to worry about things like an extra night waking but i know it eventually all adds up, now hes only taking 45min naps, all day this was an issue when before he would sleep no problem for the whole two hours and now hes really grissly to put to bed when i used to have NO issues putting him down, plus i was really concerned when in 6 hours he only had a 30ml feed! I also know hes been able to sleep 11 hours without waking before and he did this for a few weeks so why cant he do it again?

He wouldnt be teething this young would he? He is drooling, putting his fist in his mouth etc but i couldnt see anything on his gums or feel anything...
Oh i just want to know whats wrong and fix it so he isnt having such a hard time

[KathrynK]

Oh hon, don't you just wish they could tell you what's wrong? It's horrible when you don't know, I feel like I am letting him down when I can't immediately fix what's wrong. Alex woke up and cried every 45mins from bedtime at 7pm last night till 3am. That was fun.  And I had absolutely NO idea why. This morning I can feel some teeth under his gummies so I guess that was it. Isn't hindsight great?

Anyhoooo... we are always told here in UK not to change formula unless absolutely unavoidable as it upsets their tummies so if you have tried loads of different ones that might be a reason. What's the deal with the formula, what makes you think you haven't found the "right one"?

There might be a few issues going on, this was the age when Alex started having 45min naps, and it turned out that he needed more A time. Might be worth trying to extend by 10 mins or so to see if that helps?
Gotta run (MILs birthday) will be back later xxxxx

[*Jo*]

well weve tried different kinds of formulas because he just simply doesnt like them, he hates the taste or he gets an upset tummy, i honestly cant remember all the reasons why because weve been through so many, weve tried thicker stuff (as he has reflux) we have tried lactose free but he really hates that taste and we dont think he is lactose intolerant (the dr just thought he might have been because he had a red sore throat) and the one we had just changed to is really frothy, making him gassy and his bowel movements have changed colour and consistency so now im trying a new one. I dont think i will change again after this one unless he is really upset. Hes just usually such a placid baby (apart from the eating issue) and now its going further than just feeding time, I couldnt believe he wasnt bothered by not having alot to eat this morning.

We also have daylight savings ending tonight so i know thats a new issue we have to deal with tomorrow. I was also thinking maybe he is ready for 3.5 hour feeds as he just isnt taking enough at the 3 hour mark (and sometimes i spend his whole A time just trying to get him to feed) perhaps i should just bite the bullet and start that tomorrow, if i have to change his routine for daylight savings i may as well change it to 3.5 hour feeds otherwise i will have two changes to deal with in a row rather than trying to sort it out all at once.

As for extending his A time, ive tried that, he gets cranky and starts fussing if i go over an hour, like i said hes a placid baby and used to let me know he was ready for sleep just by looking heavy eyed, if i go over that then he may even start crying a little.

What do you think?? ahhh i just read my post, man im rambling now!!

[*Liz*]

Is the reflux under control? It doctor considered milk protein intolerance? This can be the cause of reflux in many babies and requires a special formula. That tastes beyond horrible, I should add.

I breast fed until very recently, but I think I have heard of some formula fed babies needing to be on a 4 hrly feeding regime even if there naps are running on a 3hrly EASY as formula is harder to digest. I also understand that variable intake is often inevitable on a 3hrly EASY for the same reason.

Sometimes I'm amazed by how little my 7mth old eats. He is not really on solids yet due to his reflux, but some days will have 2oz at each feeding, or skip one out completely. Yes, he does sometimes wake at night to make it up, but with time I've learnt to trust him. He knows how hungry he is and he knows how painful his tummy is. I can only guess really  . I've also come to accept that I will need to give him a night feed even though he is a formula fed 7mth old. And yes, I know he is capable of going 12 hrs without food as he has done it (usually during the day )

How is his weight gain?

Reflux babies often do have a hard time with eating, and if they have a nice placid personalilty it can sometimes take a while to realise what the issue is. My ds is a joy - happy, smiling baby - but has always slept badly and fed badly. He has always had reflux. I ended up waiting until he was losing weight, had complete food aversion and was waking every 2 hours a night for a little top up until I realised what the problem was. And it was because everyone kept saying 'oh he's happy enough'.

Just something to consider  .

[KathrynK]

Alex needed to go to 3.5hrs at 8 weeks, and 4 hrs by 11 weeks, so maybe it's worth a try?

[*Jo*]

THanks ladies,

Its now 4.30am (or rahter 3.30am now that daylight savings has ended) and he has woken up, i only gave him 100mls and he gobbled it up, wanted more but i just calmed him down, im trying to get him to eat more at the first feed of the day so will only give him 100mls and if he really protests will give him more but hes gone back to sleep now. One thing i did notice was the amount of wind he just passed, it was incredible, i would lay all bets on a sore tummy cos there was alot of wind and also his tummy was making huge amounts of horrid noises, poor little guy.

His reflux does seem to be under control, he doesnt bring up hardly anything these days and we do everything we are supposed to do to help it as well as medication, but when the dr examined him she said his tummy was nice and soft and there was no signs of reflux except the excessive vomiting and sore throat. He is a thriving boy, weighing in at the 50th centile, my dr wasnt worried about weight at all. I will go back to the dr this week if no improvement, she did say that if this didnt work i would need to see a specialist for him.

Im going to also try him on 3.5 hour easy to see if he eats more for this, do i just let him sleep the extra half hour to do this as i know he cant stay up later?

[KathrynK]

that's what I did- start the day at 7.30am and bed at 7pm

[TDR'smom]

We don't really do a 12 hour day either.  In bed by 6:30PM out of bed at 7.  1/2 an hour here or there should not make a difference!