Nothing is working

[willowonyx]

We have tried so many BW techniques over the last 8 months that it seems that nothing works.

MY DD will be 3 in July. Since she turned 2, she has not given us a good nights sleep and it seems to be getting worse.

This is her current routine:
Wake up: 6am (we wake her up because she is exhausted from not sleeping well)
Naptime: 12:30-2:30 (varies because she is at school)
Bedtime: 7:45pm (we start with bath at 7pm and we are lucky if she falls asleep by this time, after lots of fighting)

So, basically, I have been on here multiple times and have tried since she turned 2, WI/WO, GW and cry it out.  All methods we have tried more than once, and stayed with each for at least a month each time.

We may start to see some improvement but she then starts to just play with us and not fall asleep until 9pm. Also, now, unless we lock her door, she insists on sleeping in our room or bed. 

Yes, she has gone through all of the teething but there was no improvements when she wasn't going through something.

Here are some scenerios:

1) Mommy turns out lights and partially closes the door and sits outside door on an exercise ball, so that DD can still see her, but DD stays in her bed. For the next 30-60 mintues, DD will play, sign, talk etc....until if we are lucky she falls asleep or I get so frustrated that I just close the door and let her cry herself to sleep (which I HATE doing).
2) Mommy turns out the lights, tells DD to stay in bed and go to sleep, multiple times. DD gets out of bed and either lays down by the stairwell (so she can hear us downstairs) and eventually falls asleep, maybe by 9pm or we have to herd her back to her bed a 1,000 times until she gets mad and starts to cry and have a fit....then exhausting herself to the point I have to calm her and stay there rubbing her tummy till she falls asleep.
3) Daddy turns out lights and partially closes the door and sits outside door on an exercise ball, so that DD can still see him, and she refuses to stay in bed, so daddy gets frustrated and threatens to close they door and she refuses and she ends up having a fit, etc....see #2.
4) The last scenerio we really hate because it is cruel. We turn out the lights and close and lock the door.  She cries for about 10-15 minutes (a whinning cry) and then falls asleep by the door. If we leave the door closed all night, she will stay in there until we wake her in the morning.  But if she wakes up, she bangs on the door and then falls back to sleep.

And in all scenerios she wakes up at around midnight and 5am, EVERY night and depending on if she can get out of her room, will depend on if she comes in and sleeps in our room or wakes us up.

Any thoughts??

[gpmom]

Wow.  You must be exhausted.
I have no pearls of wisdom....
Did this all happen when she went to a bed?  Does she have music in her room?  Maybe if she had music she would not feel she needs to hear you?  Does she have a lovey or soemthing?  I would assume that maybe she thnks this is her way of getting attention from you guys?  What about a promise (bribe) of some fun mommy time the next day if she sleeps in her bed?
I wish I had a magic answer for you.....

[mari]

Firstly, the fact that you have tried so many things might be confusing her. Could you post her daily routine and maybe someone could shed some light on things for you. 

Because you have left her to cry for a time you will need to help her to regain her trust in you as leaving her to cry is really not what is advised here on BW.  Posting her routine will help us to advise you best.

[willowonyx]

Wow.  You must be exhausted.
I have no pearls of wisdom....
Did this all happen when she went to a bed?  Does she have music in her room?  Maybe if she had music she would not feel she needs to hear you?  Does she have a lovey or soemthing?  I would assume that maybe she thnks this is her way of getting attention from you guys?  What about a promise (bribe) of some fun mommy time the next day if she sleeps in her bed?
I wish I had a magic answer for you.....

This all started just before we converted her crib to a toddler bed. After a while we got a toddler princess bed in hopes of trying to keep her in her bed as well as wanting to sleep better, that did not work, she hated the bed, so we moved a double sized bed in there and she says she loves it and does not want a different one. She has a humidifer that provides white noise. We have also had some type of white noise since she was little because things like music hype her up, even classical, she LOVES to dance. She has her favorite blanket all the time and has plenty of stuff animals to choose from.  I can try to promise certain things to her in order to keep her in bed, but that will only work at bedtime, there is nothing I can do when she wakes in the middle of the night, it is like talking to a upset zombie.

[willowonyx]

Firstly, the fact that you have tried so many things might be confusing her. Could you post her daily routine and maybe someone could shed some light on things for you. 

Because you have left her to cry for a time you will need to help her to regain her trust in you as leaving her to cry is really not what is advised here on BW.  Posting her routine will help us to advise you best.

I am not sure what other routine you are looking for, other than the one I posted already.....please clue me in.

If, we had tried all those different techniques within a span of a month, I would agree, but we worked on each for a long time until the point that she "grow out" of them.

I agree that crying it out is not good and not the BW way, but it seems that the only thing she responds to is HARD love and I hate that....otherwise she just plays with us.....even if I spend several nights of telling her very lovingly to get back into her bed and go to sleep for over an hour, by the end of that hour, she is running around, playing with me, making it a game.....if I start being stern with it, it does not change anything.

[clazzat]

Have you tried changing the timings in her day?  Perhaps if she was going to bed a bit earlier - working on the 12h day/12h night principle - she might settle more quickly?  I'm not sure how much daytime sleep they need at 2.75, but a 2 hour nap seems like a lot - my 2.5 year old has 2 hours and she is the only one of her friends who does.  Could you maybe try 7am wake, nap 1.30-2.30, bed at 7pm?

Not sure if that would help, but you seem to have tried everything else.
Cx

[mari]

Sorry, missed the routine!

I tried so many different things with Alex, not over a month, but over 18 months and believe me, the more you do, the more confused they get. 

How does she fall asleep for naps?  Does she always have a 2 hour nap?  She is going to be 3 in July and maybe she is getting too old for a 2 hour nap, perhaps a slightly shorter nap and an earlier bedtime of around 6.30-7pm might suit her better.

I'm afraid that if she doesn't stay in her bed then it's a case of putting her back there over and over until she realises that she is going to be taken back every time she gets out. 

[speechie]

I agree that consistency may be the key for your LO- as pps stated.
I'd personally cut the nap down to an hour a day, push the bedtime back temporarily for a few days so she's really ready to sleep, put her into bed after your usual bedtime routine, and then keep returning her to her bed over and over w/minimal talking and no caving. Once she's used to the new routine of lights out, she stays in her own room, then bedtime can come forward a bit. i've found personally that sleep training worked best for my son when he was really tired...
Also, I know some folks have a light on a timer and tell their kids, you can not come out of your room until the light comes on in the morning...
Hang in there!

[willowonyx]

Thanks everyone....I was wondering if the nap was causing problems.

We can't get her up later in the mornings because we have to get her ready for school and we both have to get to work.  They regulate the nap at school and I recently told them to not let her sleep more than 2 hours and to have her up by 2:30.  We actually moved her bedtime later about 3 months ago, because she was so wound up at her 7pm bedtime that it took her until 8pm to fall asleep, so that is why we made her bedtime later.

So, it looks like we will have to try changing the timing.  Get her up at 6am as normal, let her sleep only 1 hour at school and move her bedtime up a little. Also, being consistant with just putting her back into bed everytime she gets out.

I think she is using the nap time to catch up on sleep because she acts all tired in the morning and sometimes says she is tired. She is also waking up every night at midnight and is having problems going back to sleep.

[gpmom]

How did it go last night.  I think you are on the right track.  A friend of mine who does bw with her 2 has a girl of the same age.  She tried getting out of bed but some how her mom got her convinced that once she was in bed she could not even step on the floor.  I will have to ask her how she did it? 

Good luck

[willowonyx]

It has been going okay.  The school forgot to wake her up after an hour  so she was still a bit awake the first night. And then when she woke at midnight, it was a horrible mess.  We were up for 3 hours trying to either get her back into bed, or telling her to not sleep on our floor, or dealing with a huge fit until finally we were all exhausted and she ended up creeping out of her room to sleep on the floor outside our door. And then last night, DH put her to bed and watched over her while I slept downstairs because I was just exhausted (I also have a head cold). He said she did come into our room at 11:30 and slept on our floor.

So, it is going to take a lot of work to get her to stay in her room when she wakes up in the middle of the night.

Any help would be appreciated. 

[speechie]

Sorry you are sick- hope you did get some rest.

And then when she woke at midnight, it was a horrible mess.  We were up for 3 hours trying to either get her back into bed, or telling her to not sleep on our floor, or dealing with a huge fit until finally we were all exhausted and she ended up creeping out of her room to sleep on the floor outside our door. -come into our room at 11:30 and slept on our floor.
 

Hugs, it does sound like it will be some work, but the pay off would be great-
I think in this instance, I would dose once with pain meds to rule that out at the first waking, then keep putting her back in bed again and again and again. With minimal eye contact, talking, etc. Even if she is pitching a fit. If you are consistent, she will learn that bed is the only option. Then every time she gets up/out of bed to sleep elsewhere, back to bed she goes, again. I realize it is easy for me to say that, as I'm not the one so sleep deprived, but FWIW, that's how I would approach this. Lovingly, but firmly...
HTH...

[willowonyx]

Okay, so we ended up going on a vacation so things were put on hold. 

But of course, we had a toddler sized air mattress for her and she never slept in it, instead she slept on the floor next to my side of the bed.

So, since we got back (Saturday), she is easier to put to bed, although she does not stay in her bed and is not waking up at night crying, but does wake up.

But, last night, scared the crap out of me.  She came in at some point in the night and laid down on my side of the bed....around 4am, the bed made a big bang noise and woke me up.  I figured it was DD kicking the side of the bed, but when I looked down for her, she was not there.....I found her entirely under our bed!!!  Now, what would happen if our queen sized bed were to brake and she was under there....so NO MORE.

I am putting my foot down harder than ever and will start the long and tiring crusade of getting her to sleep in her bed all the time every night.

She also insisted last night that we bring her "Princess toddler bed" back into her room and that she now did not want her double sized big bed.  So, we did and now both are in there.....I was going to take the bigger bed out to make more room......but I am thinking of keeping it in there.....THOUGHTS? Oh, and thoughts or ideas about getting her to stay in bed?  She is very stubborn.....

[willowonyx]

Well, last night we started the training.  In case she sneaked into our room at some point, I put some thick couch pillows under our bed.

So, it took me, 22 times of telling her or pointing to her bed, to get her to fall asleep in it. I used the no cookies, no chocolate or treats to make her stay there.  And then around midnight she came into our room, and of course I woke up on my own since I never can not wake up at that time now and saw her there and walked her back to her room, she fussed just a little and then settled down.  I waited outside the room for a few minutes to see if she would get up, but nothing. So I went back to sleep and found her outside her room on the floor at wake-up time...... 

[sherry lynn]

I don't know where I heard this, or if it's appropriate, but what about putting a screen door on her room so that you can lock that, or maybe you won't even have to lock it. Maybe just being able to see outside her room would help. I was thinking a toddler gate at first, but I bet she is too big for that now? She could just climb over it. I think anywhere in her room is fine, and maybe even outside her door is fine.

Is she scared for some reason? Would a night light help? It seems that something is bothering her since she is even willing to sleep out side her door rather than in her room. Or is it just a stubborn thing? Mom said stay in my room so I'm going to go anywhere but there, sort of thing?

Does the hour nap seem to be helping at all?