40 minute naps, are they ever ok?

[~Alexa~]

Your lo is getting 11.5 hrs of night sleep, so technically 5.45 am is not an EW!  It can be early for you, but he is getting the amount of night sleep that he needs.  So I would try to move bedtime later.  I would try to offer a short catnap (30 min) in the afternoon so bedtime is around 7 pm, and then he wakes up at 6.30 am. 

I would try to add 15 more min to the first A in the morning and see if that helps.  If he takes a short nap, then you will have to reduce the next A to 2 hr - 2.25 hr.  I think that he may be a bit UT for the first nap, so may be if we get that A time right, we will be able work on the rest of the day.  Does this make sense?

Keep me posted
Alexa

[emmiebruce]

Well I think I have to concede defeat, yesterday I got a 1.5 hour nap in the morning with a 2.25 A time but I tried the same today and we're back to the 40 min one!!  I am concluding that if my lo needs the extra sleep then he will have it and if not I have to be happy with the short naps.  He is a pretty good and happy baby so I should be content with that!!  I just can't keep trying each day and getting my hopes up for a decent nap and then being dissapointed, esp as I haven't actually done anything this week ecxept think about sleep and wake times!! 

Thankyou for all your help, I have at least got bedtime back on track which is great x

[~Alexa~]

That's great, hun!! I know exactly what you mean! Let us know if we can help you out later on!

(((HUGS)))
Alexa

[KellyC]

I haven't managed to read all the replies properly so I apologise if I'm repeating or saying something completely different!

Firstly, I'd say it's not the end of the world if you're stuck with these 'short' naps for a while as your LO is obviously doing fine on them!

Secondly, both my boys only ever needed 1 long nap a day - if they had a long morning nap they only needed a short afternoon nap and vice versa, especially once they got to your LO's age.

A good tip for getting a long 2nd nap after a 40 minute am nap is to make sure your LO goes to sleep with a full tummy.  It looks like your LO is having lunch at 1pm so at 11.30/12 he's unlikely to sleep for long.  I would give him/her (sorry, I can't see the gender on this page!) lunch before the second nap.  I'd aim for 12 but if he's getting obviously tired do it a little early, maybe 11.45.  After his lunch give him a little top-up of milk (2-3oz in a bottle or a short bf) then aim to have him down for his after lunch nap at around 12.15/12.30 (assuming he's getting up from his morning nap at around 9.45/10 - if it's earlier then you might have to bring this plan forward!).

Kelly x

[~Alexa~]

Ditto, Kelly!!

[emmiebruce]

Thanks for the tip but he has a bottle at 11 ish so technically doesn't have an empty tummy for that nap and to be honest if I offer him lunch much earlier then he will prob not want it as he doesn't eat well when tired...

Alexa, I need help with the bedtime, wake ups again.  I had a couple of better days last week but I just can't past the 5.30 wake up, in 3 weeks we've gone from having a good 6.30 to 6.30 pattern to 6.30 to 5.30 and now 7.00 to 5.30 so my lo is only having 10.5 hours instead of 12 at night, I just can't believe he doesn't need the sleep anymore and since he wakes up crying instead of chatting then I think he feels the same!!  Where did I go wrong?

My dh and I are just so tired and it's taking it's toll on our relationship, please help!!

[Barbaara]

Hi there!  Sorry you're having a hard time!! (((hugs)))

Could you post yesterday's routine so we can have a look at it?  Maybe he needs a little bit more A time?

Barbara
x

[emmiebruce]

This is yesterdays:

5.45 wake
6.30 bottle
8.15 sleep (50 mins after 2hr 30 A)
9.15 breakfast
11.00 bottle
11.40 sleep (40 mins after 2hr 40 A)
1.30 lunch
2.30 sleep (only 20 mins after 2hr 10 A)
3.00 bottle
4.25 sleep (30 mins)
7.00 bottle and bed

There was a brief 10 minute NW at 1am as well and wake up at 5.45 this morning.  Looking at this pattern I am wondering if he needs more A time between naps.  Today he went down at the same time as yesterday and only managed 35 minutes.  I always thought naps under 40 mins meant OT but could it be UT in this case? 

[Barbaara]

The first nap was 50 mins so I'm thinking UT.  But then he had a longer A time after a short nap, so maybe a little OT and by the next nap definitely OT?  How was he during A times? 

Could OT also be a cause of NW and EW because they're more restless in their sleep?

Sorry I can't help you out more.   

How's today going so far?

Barbara
x

[emmiebruce]

Surprisingly he was fine during his A times and not cranky like I would have expected.  I think you are right about the UT, OT pattern tough so tomorrow I'm going to add extra A time first thing and see what happens.

Today is not too bad, first nap was shorter than expected (35 mins) and he has just been settled for the next one (2hr 10 min A time)  he is currently doing a combination of talking and wingeing in his cot lol!  I will keep you posted on what happens...

[emmiebruce]

I can see what you are saying and funnily enough he had a reasonable nap this afternoon and slept for 1.25 hours which saw him nicely through to bedtime.  The problem is that if I moved lunch forward then he probably wouldn't have had that one which would have meant he was OT by bedtime.  I am happy with one or two short morning naps and a reasonable pm one so this is what I aiming for and I think our lunchtime is suitable for that....

[~Alexa~]

Hi Emma!! So, I agree with you...It does sound like some of your lo's naps are a bit UT, but then at the end of the day, he is going to bed OT b/c of the short naps.  Does this make sense? And then, that causes NWs and EWs. 
I think that I would try to add some A time first thing in the morning and see what happens.  Then, if he takes a good am nap (anything longer than 1 hr), then repeat the same A before the pm nap.

About feeding schedules, I think that having bottles before solids is the right thing to do at this age.  Milk is the main source of nutrition for bubs until they are 12 mo.  Solids before 1 yo are just for fun! So, if you have solids before milk, then your lo's milk intake will decrease, and that's not what we want right now.  It will happen eventually, but when your lo is like 10-12 mo.

So tomorrow, I would try to add 10 min to those A times.  Right now, your lo is doing 2.5 hrs A time.
6 am wake up
6.30 am bottle
7 am solids
A. 2.75 hrs
8.40 am - 10.40 am Nap 1
10.40 am bottle
11.40 am solids
1.20 pm - 3.20 pm Nap 2
3.20 pm bottle
4 pm solids
6 pm bottle and bedtime

If you think 6 pm is too early, then I would try to cut the pm nap shorter, and may be wake your lo at 2.40 pm, and then have a SHORT 30 min catnap at 4.15 pm and wake him up at 4.45 pm, and then go for a 7 pm bedtime.  Personally, I prefered the early bedtime b/c the CN always gave us EWs. 

Is there a way you can extend your los naps? have you tried shpat? Just in case your lo sleeps a short nap, you may try to shpat him back to sleep for the next couple of days, just to make sure he catches on some sleep and doesn't get OT.

Just remember that at 6 mo, it is very normal to have some sleep disruption.  They are getting ready to drop the catnap, but can't handle the long A times yet.  So it is very common to experience some EWs until they drop the CN!

Let us know how things go,
Alexa

[emmiebruce]

This mornings wake up was 5.15 am so was the longer pm nap to blame or is it that he went to bed too late? what time should I be considering bed time?

Should I be thinking a 12.5 hour day and 11.5 hour night (as that is where we were?) or as the nights have dropped to 10.5 hours should the day be longer or shorter??  I'm too tired to think straight!!

I'm worried that by putting him to bed early tonight he will wake even earlier tomorrow.  I just want my 6.30/7.00 to 6.30 routine back!!

[emmiebruce]

I tried 2.75 hrs A time this morning and still only got a 50 minute nap so I'm def thinking UT and a longer first A time is required. 

I'm starting to wish I had never tried to change things at all , I just feel like I've made it all so much worse than it was and I now I can't see an end to it.  I'm in tears as I write this, I've made such a mess so far!! 

[~Alexa~]

(((HUGS Emma)))) I'm sorry you are having such a tough time!! Ok, so let's re-think all of this....He is waking up way too early and going to bed late....May be the short catnap in the afternoon is causing the EW, so let's drop it and go back to an erly bedtime as you used to do. (See the routine I wrote in my pp) Then, once we get the day 12.5 hrs - night 11.5 hrs back, we can work on pushing your lo's day back.  What do you think?

At the same time, keep going for 2.75 hr A time for a couple of days and see what happens.  It takes time for los' internal clock to change so don't move to 3 hrs A yet.  Give the 2.75 hrs A 2 more days and then we can add 15 more min.  What do you say?

But I think we need to go to a 6/6.30 pm bedtime again! Your lo is getting 10.5 hrs of nightsleep which is too short, so let's go back to what was working.

Let me know how things go
Alexa

P.S. Kelly, don't leave! that's the beauty of BW, we can get different opinions and points of view! May be you can think of something that we can't!