Still 45 minute naps... Advice please??

[Avas_Mommy]

So I spend a lot of time whining to my husband about Ava's 45 minute naps. And every weekend fo the past three weeks, Ava has napped BRILLIANTLY. Then when it's back to the working week and it's just the two of us, the 45 minute monster returns. This tells me two things (I think):

1)this little lady is TOTALLY capable of transitioning 
2) I am so over standing over her crib every day- it's irritating and my back hurts! 

And after reading the post about living with 45 minute naps, I think that is what I am going to do. I will try to extend if possible, but if it doesn't work after 20 minutes I'll fold! Just not sure what to do after I pick her up- feed her early and start a new cycle or keep her on the current cycle and risk her falling asleep soon after her bottle with not enough awake time?

My initial worry was that if I didn't use w2s, that she would still be unable to transition well into her first year... but since she has transitioned sucessfully a number of times now, do you think that could be a valid worry at this point? My biggest fear is I would be hindering her by not doing w2s. 

I sort of wonder what is different at the weekends too... I know I could be more relaxed because DH is there and I have some support (I am so freakin lonely during the week it's a joke) but not THAT much more relaxed that it should affect her sleep (I'm not that tense that I am aware of during the week, either!). So it's a mystery. A very frustrating one.

Ava has been asleep for 23 minutes now... wonder if she will wake in another 20

[~Alexa~]

How old is she?

Could you post your routine so we can take a look? Include milk feeds, solids (if any), nap lengths, A times. 
E. 7 am
A. 7-9 am
S. 9-9.45 am
 
And so on...

Personally, I would stick with the feeding schedule, regardless of the lengths of naps.  That is: don't feed her when she wakes up from the 30 min nap, just give her some A and then feed her.  When having short naps, your routine will look more like EASAESA or something like that.

xxx
Alexa

[gte558k]

Hello, not that this helps but you sound exactly like my wife!  Her back is killing her and she spends most of her days trying to get him to nap.  Our son is better on the weekends when I am there and it is a struggle for my wife during the week.  Part of it with her is that she is probably more relaxed when I am there - which probably helps.   

In addition to short naps, some days he just doesn't go down to sleep.  This morning for example he has been up since 6:30 am and it is 10:51 am now and he hasn't slept and my wife is in tears and I am stuck at work. 

I would be interested in hearing what others do.  She has tried the shh-pat, but as soon as he is down - he wakes back up.  Granted he is probably so overtired now it is going to be such a struggle all day long.  Worse yet, he used to sleep through the night for the past 3 weeks... and for the last 4 days he has been waking up.  Certainly you can't help but think something is wrong and this can't be good. 

My thoughts are with you, but that's all I can offer.  I struggle ever day when I leave for work and my wife has to get through these hard days alone.   

[~Alexa~]

(((HUGS hun))) How is it going Avas_mommy?  Short naps can be really tough!!

Hi gte558k!! How old is your lo?

When I had short naps, I offered my lo two naps in one EASY cycle.  So we had EASASE....

When I try to extend my lo's naps, I always set a goal: "If he doesn't go back to sleep after 20 min of trying shpat, then, I will stop and have some A." At least, I have a limit time, so I think it is great you will give it a go for 20 min, but if it doesn't work, don't worry!! You can try during the next nap!! 

Gte558k (i don't know your name), if your lo is Ot now, I would try shpat, but if it doesn't work, then I would do some APOP to put her to sleep.  I used to stress a lot when we had short naps.  I called my husband when he was at work, and I yelled at him, and cried and felt desperate.  I had to learn that there was nothing else I could do.  Your wife is doing more than enough: She is offering the right conditions for sleep and the right times too, but the rest is your lo's job.  So, tell her not to beat herself up for those short naps.  She's doing the best that she can, the other part is your lo's job!  We can't control everything! HUGS for your wife!

Alexa

[Avas_Mommy]

Thanks Alexa and Gte,

I have been doing just that- giving her A time when she wakes and won't go back down. If she is a good length of time away from her bottle I may give it to her at 3 hours rather than 3.5 but that's about it. I have been making an effort the last couple of days to relax and not worry. And she lets me know if I should extend - if she is smiley I know there is no chance! And I agree with the 20 minute time limit- Ava is Angel/Textbook (apart from the 45 min monster!) and so if she won't go down after 20 whole mins it just isn't going to happen!! Oh yeah- she is 12 weeks tomorrow (unbelieveable!!)!

This is what today looked like:


E: 3am-3:15am 130ml (she went down at 7:45pm the night before)
A: none
S: 3:15-6:30am
Y: (snore)

E: 6:30-6:15am
A: 6:15-7:40
S: 7:40-9:35 (she transitioned on her own!)

E: 9:45-10:00 120ml
A: 10:00-11:10
S: 11:10- 11:40 (woke and fussed 11:40-12:00)
S: 12-12:50

E: 1-1:15pm 120ml
A: 1:15-2:15
S: 2:30- 3:00 (went to well baby clinic to be weighed so slept in pram for a bit)

E: 3:30-3:45 120ml
A: 3:45-4:40 (actually 3-4:40 since woke early in pram)
S:4:40-5:00, fussed, 5:20-6:00 (had to wake her from a deep sleep, have a feeling she would have slept as long as I let her.)

A: 6:00-7:00pm (Inc BATH)
E: 7:00-7:20 150ml
S: 7:20- now

Hope this sheds some light. Today was a bit weird- we are usually on a 3.5 hour cycle, but I had to adjust some feed times to get her lined up for a 7pm feed after her bath! I think there was actually even a 2.5 cycle in there somewhere!

Since Ava can go to sleep independently pretty consistently, I am happy to do a bit of occasional APOP if she (and I) are desperate for a good nap!

Thanks so much for your help- what do you think of the schedule?

(hugs)

Celina

PS. Gte- I hope that your wife is able to find some help here on the boards to help sort your LO's nap times. The best advice I can give is for her to try and relax (it is a huge effort, at least for me!) and enjoy your LO. At least one good nap a day is a good target for me- it feels like an achievable goal most days- no matter how I achieve it sometimes! Even if it means having her sleep on me once in a while! 

[Avas_Mommy]

Bump 

[~Alexa~]

Hi Celina!! Sorry it took me awhile to answer!! My lo is sick, so it's been kind of crazy around here!!

I think some of your lo's As are TOO LONG.  Her first A was 1 hr 10 min and she slept for 2 hrs by herself.    That's around what she should be awake.  I see you don't include the feeding time in your lo's As.  But she is awake as she eats, so you should count it too.  Remember A time is all the time bubs are awake, from the moment they open their eyes till they close them again. 
At 3 mo, bubs are able to handle from 1 hr 20 - 1 hr 30 min A time.  So, if your lo wakes up from her first nap at 9.45 am, then she should be IN HER CRIB AND ASLEEP at 11.05 - 11.15 am.  So, if it takes her 20 min to fall asleep, you should start your wind down routine at 10.50 am, so that she is ALSEEP AND IN HER CRIB at 11.15 am.  Does this make sense?

So, if she sleeps a short nap, she will get tired earlier, so instead of being able to handle 1 hr 20 min A, she may get tired after just 1 hr.  So, try to reduce her As after a short nap. 

I think your lo is a bit OT b/c of the long As.  So, try to reduce them and see if that helps.

Do you have a wind down routine for naps? If so, what does it look like? Is your lo swaddled? How did you do w2s when you used it?http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64168.0

Hope this helps
Alexa

[Avas_Mommy]

Thanks Alexa!

I will make an effort to keep an eagle-eye on her A times (although things tend to be more relaxed at weekends, I will try!). I think it's a very good possibility she is often OT. Her sleep cues have been disappearing the last week or so, so I should definitely pay more attention to the clock!

I swaddle Ava for naps and usually when she goes down for the night (more often than not). When she wakes for a feed in the early hours I don't swaddle her again as she is so relaxed and she seems to sleep fine.. although now I'm wondering if I could eek out a couple more hours from her if she was swaddled then as well, since the 6am wake-up is a killer!
The wind-down routine for naps is a bit random... so not really a routine. When she gives cues or gets fussy around the right time, I'll take her upstairs to our room (she sleeps in her cot at the end of our bed), lay her in her cot and sing/play with her for a while (waiting for a cue if I haven't seen one yet and only brought her up because of the clock) and then swaddle her- shhh her since she hates being swaddled- then either leave the room or go stand in the corner/sit on the bed where she can't see me until she falls asleep (I usually just want to make sure she doesn't get out of her swaddle- she is Houdini in diapers!).

With w2s I used to sit by her cot after 20 mins and wait for the jolts. Once she hits REM, she is like a little jumping bean! And it lasts such a long time I would have to stay there for pretty much the duration of the nap. Exhausting! I haven't been going in lately until I hear her stir- I have managed to get her back to sleep as often as not- but I am a little more relaxed about it than if I had been hovering over her cot with a cramp in my back ! lol.

Hope this paints a clearer picture (one that doesn't make me look too bad!: )- thanks again for your help!

(hugs)

Celina

[~Alexa~]

Hi Celina!! How is it going now?

[Avas_Mommy]

Hi Alexa,

Thanks for asking- it's going okay I guess. I have tried to watch her A times today, but the naps weren't so great.
 Each nap was split by Ava waking and fussing for 20-30 minutes (I have started putting her down unswaddled so think it may have something to do with this). After the 'first' nap of 20-30 mins and fussing she would then sleep an hour. That happened with all but the morning nap which was two sets of 30mins. She was SUPER fussy and wouldn't extend her nap so I got her up and shortened her next A time. 
I don't know if I have taken on too much by stopping swaddling her and trying to help her with 45 min naps, but she really hates the swaddle!? I think I am seeing progress with her self-soothing and think it may be getting better, but I think I could just be seeing what I want to see! I'm not really sure how long it will take...
I have checked out the swaddle weaning boards and they are a great comfort at the mo! Hope I can post a success story soon!

PS sorry about starting the nap thread, I didn't realise I should only have one. 

[~Alexa~]

PS sorry about starting the nap thread, I didn't realise I should only have one. 

Don't worry about it!! 

How long are your lo's As now? could you post your routine? So, is w2s working for nap extension? http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64168.0

Getting rid of the swaddle can be hard and may cause nap disruption.  Why do you say your lo hates it? If the swaddle helped your lo sleep better, then, I wouldn't get rid of it.  I swaddled my lo until he was 5 mo, b/c that's when he got better at self soothiing, so he didn't need the swaddle anymore.  You can try to keep one hand out of the swaddle first.  If you want, you can start a post on the Props board to get more advice on how to get rid of the swaddle.