Short nap ruin routine

[Ethan's Mom]

Hi, these past 4 days my 5mo spirited baby boy has been taking short nap during the day. He would only naps for 40 minutes on the first nap, less than half an hour on the second nap and struggle with the following naps. It ruins his 4h routine. I tried to extend his activity time by 15 minutes, but it doesnt work. Need your help, please... thanks !

[LizzieN]

Hey sweetie, I think you should post your EASY for the mods so they can see what is going on

[Ethan's Mom]

Previously his 4h was ( he is currently 5mo )  :

E  : 6.30am ( wakeup varies between 6.00-6.30 )
A  : 6.45am
S  : 8.15am
E  : 10.00am
A  : 10.15am
S  : 11.45am
E  : 2.00pm
A  : 2.15pm
S  : 4.00pm ( walk in a stroller )
E  : 5.00pm
A  :5.15pm
S  :6.20pm
DF : 10.30pm

Suddenly around 5 days ago, he start catnapping  :

E  : 6.30am ( wakeup varies between 6.00-6.30 )
A  : 6.45am
S  : 8.15am
A  : wake up at 9.15am roughly ( around an hour after fell asleep )
E  : 10.00am
A  : 10.15am
S  : 11.15am
A  : wake up at 11.45am roughly ( around half an hour after fell asleep )
E  : 2.00pm
S  : 1.45pm
A  : wake up at 2.45pm roughly ( around 40min to an hour after fell asleep )
E  : 4.00pm
resist napping for though looks sleepy & fuss
A  :4.15pm
S  :5.40pm
wake up around an hour after, sleep fitfully several time
DF : 10.30pm
E  : around 3am

I have not get any clue why things suddenly change while he has just started to self settle this past a week. Previously he nursed to sleep, then I tried doing the shush patt with lots of struggle til finally I just read him several stories, walked out the room and he suddenly dropped off.

I've kept the activity time as usual ( playing on the floor, stroll him around the house ). The thing is that by the 40 - 45 minutes mark, he suddenly awake and talk to himself, play in his crib ( I still swaddle him with one arm out ). I tried to let him settle, but he just wouldnt back to his sleep up to his next feeding time. Sometimes he yells ( he is a spirited type ), then if I come and tried the shush pat, he would suddenly screamed & arched his back, at the end eventually crying until I pick him up and bring him out of the room. Im not sure if I need to do PU/PD as he didnt cry by the time he woke up.

Things get worst as now he began to wake around an hour after the 6pm sleep, and wake 1 or 2 times around 2am - 5am. He is currently still exclusively breastfeed.

I really confuse why things suddenly change by the time I thought he has done a great improvement in self settling ( previously he would screamed by the time I put him on his crib ). Really really need your help pleasee...

[LizzieN]

Hey darling, I'm going to post even though I'm not an expert at all...so take this with a grain of salt   I am wondering if your LO is starting to need a little more A time (they usually do by about 6 months I think)...The general thing I have found is that a

- 30 minute nap = over tired (very hard to get back down) or gas/reflux pain (also very hard to get back down)

- 45 minute nap = Under tired when put to bed, if they wake up happy and chatty it's probably because they have had enough sleep for now, but usually causes OT later in the day because power naps don't sustain all that well.  With our bub 45 minute naps also can mean he has a bm coming!!

If you are keen to have a little more A time just increase it really gradually (ie an extra 10 minutes or even 5 if your LO is incredibly touchy and needs strong routine) and see if it helps, if not you can always go back   I found our LO (who is 12 months) went COMPLETELY awol a little while ago, I was trying to put him down early because he was so tired, but then he wouldn't sleep at all...what was happening was that even though he was showing tired signs he was UT when I tried to put him down, missed his sleep window because he was screaming because I'd put him down to early and then was so OT he couldn't sleep...ouch!!  Not good days!!  Got it a little better again now though

One other thing I am wondering is if your LO is on the way to wanting some solids, have you noticed he has started taking a real interest in your food, your spoon etc?  You may feel it's a little early to start, that's totally your decision, but it does add a few extra calories in the day which can assist during the night   We had to start our LO early (at about 5 1/2 months on peds advice due to his reflux - this is against Tracy's advice for reflux btw. 

I hope the mods post for you soon, just wanted to post some support and a hang in there vibe
thinking of you and your LO and hope it gets better really soon
Lizzie

[jlmlyle]

Hi there,

I think the suggestions of more awake time are probably right. But that would assume starting with a slightly longer wake time and a good long nap with the first nap.  Than you would slowly increase the 2nd wake time by another 10- 15 minutes.  But if that first nap is shorter, than I would not extend the 2nd wake time so much like I've seen you have done now that things are off.

But when my daughter was about 5 months I spent a whole month to 6 weeks dealing with erratic naps and lots of 40-45 naps with the longest naps being only an hour.  In addition to lengthening awake times, what really worked for us was dropping the 3rd cat nap.  That finally got us back to longer than an hour naps and she settled into two 1.5 hour naps after that. I don't know if that is your case, but after several weeks of playing with the awake time (both shortening and lengthening) with no real pattern emerging, dropping that last nap was what she needed.

Anyway I thought I'd share because I remember going through that.  It wasn't much fun and it took me forever to figure out.  Good luck!

[Ethan's Mom]

Hi LizzieN, thanks a lot for your support, that help me alot :-). Today I woke up at 5.30am and sneaked out to his room. To my surprise he was awake and sucking his thumb quietly in his bed. I went out of the room quietly with the thought he may back to his sleep, but he didnt. I began to think that he could have waken up so early these past catnap days, that made him so OT ( I put him to bed at the earliest at 8.30am, means if he woke up at 5.30am, he has been awake for 3hours ! ). This morning I keep nursing him at 6.30am and put him to bed at 8am, but then he screamed and cried so badly for half an hour. Finally I took him for a walk and he had 30minutes catnap in his stroller. Back home, he was quite fussy ( I felt that he was still sleepy but just couldnt back to sleep ). I nursed him at 10am until he was drowsy, put him on his crib and pat him for 20 minutes. Now he has been sleeping for 50 minutes. I hope he'll take full 2 cycle sleep this time... :-)

Tommorow I'll wake up earlier to see what is the exact time he woke up. My concern is that, if he wake up at 5am, should I nurse him right away and put him back to sleep at 7am ? It means that he would start his day at 5am which Im not sure its a good routine. So far he doesnt mind if I nurse him at 6.30 - 7am as he just quietly suck his thumb in his crib. Is there somebody have the same early wake up problem ? How to wind down an "already" OT baby that screams and cries emotionally ? I put him on my shoulder and pat him, but he kept screaming. Tried to do the shush pat on his crib, and he screams more. At the end, the thing that would help only BF him which I know may trigger accidental parenting.

Need your help or suggestion please... Thanks !

[Ethan's Mom]

Hi Jlmlyle, thanks for sharing :-) I'll try extending his nap time by tommorow. Seems today he has been OT due to early wake up.

[LizzieN]

Hey sweetie,

If he is awake at 5am but happy and not crying, leave him to it and don't get out of bed.  You need your rest too!!!  If he cries you can try PU/PD or shush pat (which ever usually works for you) but I usually find I have to feed at that time (my LO often wakes early because he has a BM coming and will not settle), just a short one then back to bed straight away (NO A TIME or he will come to think that's wake up time) if you possibly can
Sweetie are you nursing just before you put your LO down for all naps?? I'm just asking because you said that you were nursing to sleep previously...Apart from night wakes where you nurse and put them straight back to bed and the night time routine which includes a feed then wind down and bed it is recommended to feed them as soon as they wake up.  That is the first thing you do if they will take it...I'm just wondering if your LOs naps are short because he is still relying on the nursing to get sleepy....


Lizzie

[Ethan's Mom]

Hi LizzieN, thanks for the reply. I think I found out that he might did the catnaping due to OT. As I mentioned in my last post, I found he woke up at around 5.30am. Yesterday I tried to put him to bed around 2hours later ( his first sleep was 7.30am ) and he dropped off quite easy. But the problem now is his first nursing time. I didnt nursed him right after he woke up at 5.30am with the reason not to teach him early wake up. So he start his E time at 6.30am as usual. But the next problem is his next feeding schedule which is at 10.30am which is nearly his next nap time. I want to wean his nursing to sleep association, but if he still waking up at 5.30am and I delay the feed, then it would be EASAES instead of EASY. I once tried postponing his nightime sleep with the hope he wouldnt wake up so early, but he was getting OT.

[LizzieN]

I know that you want to drop the nursing to sleep, well done The only thing I would say is that if your LO is waking at 5:30am and is crabby and crying, I would feed, not do any other A time and try and settle STRAIGHT back to sleep...it's possible your LO is hungry and not waking because he is ready to start his day.  Nursing at night if you suspect hunger is not an issue, it's through the day that I would try and stop the association.  If he doesn't go back to sleep just adjust your day accordingly for a little while and see what happens...it may be that your LO is having a growth period and needs a few more calories....perhaps not too but if you can get a bit more sleep that will be good for you all.

Later on if you think the EW is becoming a habit you can do your PU/PD or delay feeding etc.  I'm not trying to be silly, but even at 5 months with an exclusively bf baby one feed a night is not uncommon...I'm wondering if you could try NOT feeding at the 3am wake up (shush pat or PU/PD to sleep) and try and get your LO to extend this sleep time a little then feed the next time he wakes and see if that makes him sleep in a little longer???  Hard doing stuff like that in the night, do you use a dummy/paci/soother? Do you find your LO is really hungry at this wake?

Lizzie

[Ethan's Mom]

Hi Lizzie, thanks for the reply. This morning he woke up at 4.45 am and had his first nap at 7.20am. He went to bed at 7pm last night. I think I'd like to do PU/PD as you suggested, for though I feel not confident enough, I once tried it, but the think that made me confuse was whether I need to directly pick him up after his first yell or let him scream and wait a real cry coming then I could pick him up ? My LO is a thumb sucker, he usually throw out the paci by the time I put it on his mouth. I found out that if he could find his thumb, he could sleep well ( no need to nurse ), otherwise he would scream and eventually cry on his crib. I tried to guide his thumb onto his mouth, but he keep crying and flailing his hand. Is it possible that he still have the nurse to sleep association ? The funny thing is it seems that he always on tract only on Monday & Tuesday, Wednesday is regressing, and weekend is the worst :-)

[LizzieN]

Hey there,
If you still want to use the paci apparently you can't do PU/PD, you have to use the paci and shush pat to get your LO to sleep.

If you decide to do PU/PD you do your wind down (same for naps as well), book, cuddle and your key sleep phrase "night night darling, time for sleep (or something similar) and then put him down.
If he is happy in the cot, leave him to it (you can either stay in the room or leave, which ever your baby responds better to).
If he cries an upset cry - try and settle him with your voice (say your phrase again) or place a hand on him, if that doesn't work pick up, very briefly comfort/cuddle and then put back down again (don't wait for him to stop crying, unless you think he is in pain from wind or something - in that case burp him and then put back down).  If he continues to cry his distressed cry do it all again....you keep this up for naps for as long as you can, but don't go longer than the sleep would have been normally.  At night you go for as long as you have to to get them to sleep.

Babies also have a mantra cry which is a cry they make that doesn't get louder or more insistent....if your LO is doing this during your PU/PD you wait until it escalates to a real cry.  The mantra cry is something most babies do as a self settling trying to get to sleep noise!!

PU/PD is hard and involves quite a bit of crying especially if you are weaning them off a prop or yourself   But there is heaps of help over on the PU/PD board, the mods are wonderful and I will be over there too quite a lot if you need to chat

If your bub is waking at a different time each morning at his EWs it is possible that he is hungry.  I would seriously feed STRAIGHT AWAY, then put him back to bed STRAIGHT AFTER.  The way you wean them off this early feed is over time to just reduce the time you bf for...It really is up to you but there is no way I would be starting my day at 4:45am unless my LO absolutely WOULDN'T go back down...

Do you have more people in your house over the weekend?  Could the house be noisier? If it is you could try some white noise in your LOs room, a fan or humidifier or cd of white noise...works well for my LO