All over the place.....

[~Emma~]

OK, here we go (again!  ). We have just moved up to a 4 hour EASY. All was going really well, I was getting 1 good nap a day and able to extend the rest. DS was going down independantly for all naps...it was heaven! Had a couple of EW's but I wasn't too worried. Now we are consistently getting EW's and had a 3am screamer last night! DS is such a happy baby and when he doesn't nap well more often than not he still pretty happy. My first prob is not knowing WHEN the EW is, I go into his room in the am and he is already awake. Thankfully his cues in the morning are crystal clear ie he starts falling asleep!

Yesterday went like so

E. 6.30
A. ? -7.15
S. 7.15 -8 Woke up happy after going down independantly
A. 8 -9.15
S. 9.15 - 10 Quite hard to put down but he seemed tired.

E. 10.30
A. 10 -12.10 had to help him get to sleep
S. 12.10 - 12.50 Couldn't extend although he was v. fussy

E. 2.30
A. 12.50 - 3.15 Took ages to go to sleep and had to shpat
S. 3.15 - 4

E. 6.30
S. 7.00

E. 11.00
S. 11.00 -3

S.3.15 -

This morning has gone the same...he is on his 2nd 45 min nap! He is quite touchy so I always have one eye on him and the other on the clock. I just don't understand why he has regressed so much.

Any ideas?

Emma xxx

[Barbaara]

Hi Emma,

it's my understanding you have to 'ignore' EW and start your day at your normal time and start counting your LO A time from that point on.  If you put them down for a nap too soon, they start counting on that nap as an extension of their night.

So I'm thinking the first nap was UT, because at his age they usually need more than 1h15 of A time. I'm guessing the next nap was also UT, again A time being too short.  Then your LO had an A time of 2h10 after a 45 min nap, so there he was probably a bit OT.  That's probalby why he was very fussy after the nap.  And the same happened with the next long A time and nap.

If I were you, I'd probably extend his first A time in the morning.  Maybe add an extra 15 minutes to that A time and see what happens.  If you still don't see a difference after 3 days, I'd add another 15 minutes or so.  You can always do it in smaller increments, that's up to you.

If you do get a shorter nap, then compensate by shortening the next A time.

Does this make sense? 

Barbara
x

[~Emma~]

 Hi Barbera,

Thanks!  I totally get what you are saying but in the AM he is actually falling asleep! I am thinking he must be waking at about 5.30am some mornings and I know nothing about it. I will try to extend the A tomorrow and see what I get!

Emma xxx

[Barbaara]

Okay, keep us posted!

Barbara
x

[*Liz*]

I agree - I would try and get as near to normal nap time as possible. I get EWs and if DS wakes at 4.45am there is not way he will get to 10am, but I try and push as far as I can and usually make it past 9am.

Its so odd to me that babies can wake and just lie there - my DS opens his eyes and starts to sing like a lark. And he will do this for over an hour or so until I get him out. So I'm never sure whether I should really count it as low key 'ignored' time as he has made more noise than if I had him up  .

[huntersmummyinoz]

hiya,
when did you switch to the 4hr EASY and what was he on before?
kirry

[~Emma~]

 We were moving up gradually but the last 2 feeds of the day were coming too close together if that makes sense. On the lead up to the 4 hour everyday was a wee bit different but he coped with it good.

I have been trying to keep him awake in the morning for as long as I can but he is actually falling asleep on me in the morning and I feel awful for trying to push him out as it seems to defeat the purpose of reading his cues iykwim?! We spend most of the morning in Mum and Dads bed before the 1st nap, not actually sleeping though! We hang out in there while DH gets ready for work. The last couple of mornings I have taken him downstairs to try and keep him more amused under his gym. He perks up and seems really awake and then I get a half hour nap!! He is quite touchy and still needs 1st A time to be pretty low key. I managed to extend this morning after me having to settle him initially, he just seems to be taking steps backwards at the moment as he has been able to settle himself for naps for a couple of weeks and always for nights.


Mmmmmm.....anyways hoping tomorrow morning isn't a 5am waking!

Emma xxx

[TDR'smom]

it's my understanding you have to 'ignore' EW and start your day at your normal time and start counting your LO A time from that point on.  If you put them down for a nap too soon, they start counting on that nap as an extension of their night.

Totally Agree with this. Mashimaro just posted about this...

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=149066.0

[Barbaara]

Hi Emma,

How's your night been?

I can't seem to find where you wrote how old you LO is exactly...  Could you post yesterday's routine so we can have a look at it?

Sorry you're having such a hard time.  I also felt like we were going backwards for a while, but then we got A times sorted out and naps started to get longer again. Of course By then she was already a couple of weeks older, so that might have had something to do with it as well.

Barbara
x

[~Emma~]

hey,

Nights are still ok. If he has been waking it has been between going down and 10pm so apart from that 3am screamathon nights are ok which i'm glad about as it gives me more freedom to fiddle about with the days iykwim?! 

On the day after the 3am waking he slept until 6.20am! I am so unsure of his A time in the mornings a these EW's hve thrown me a bit. His AM A time is usually alot shorter but he was giving me sleepy cues at 1hr 55 so I put him down....then got a 45 min nap that I was unable to extend!! I don't think the 45 minute naps are UT because he ALWAYS naps for 45 mins depsite the A time. Apart from the last couple of mornings where he has given me a 30 min OT nap due to his marathon A time in the morning! Anyways blethering now....

Yesterday went as so...

 Awake?

E. 6.30
A. ? -8.30
S. 8.30 - 10.15 Had to resettle 3x  Hard work but resolved to extend!!!


E. 10.30
A. 10.15 - 12.15
S. 12.15 - 1.00 Couldn't extend so went out in pushchair where he slept for further 20 mins.

E. 2.30 Sleepy on feed

Gets a bit hairy here as had to go out but he slept for about 45 mins in the car....


E. 6.30
S. 7.30
E.11.00 DH said he was awake when he went in to give df but was sleeping when he finished
S. 11.00 - ?

I am thinking his awake time in the morning is about 5-5.30ish as he is always getting real sleepy at about 7.30ish. This is when I take him downstairs. I know I need to work on naps but he always wakes happy from most naps despite how long they have been!! I try so hard to extend but mostly have been getting nowhere despite good prgress a wee while ago! he seems to take a leap sometimes then regress just to keep me on my toes. 

Whaddyathink Ladies....what next? 


Emma xxx

[~Emma~]

Sorry Barbara...he'll be 5 mos old next week.

Emma xxx

[Barbaara]

Hi Emma,

My DD is will be 5 mos old next week too! 

Maybe 2h is a bit too much after an EW.  You're supposed to 'ignore' them ,but if my DD has an EW i'm usually not able to keep her normal A time.  I find it hard to determine right A time after an EW as well, I tend to follow her cues a little more, but still keep an eye on the clock iykwim?

I'd probably try to add a little more to the second A time.  As you weren't able to extend he probably was a little UT.

I think you're doing great!!   I'm sure you're not that far from getting those long naps again.

How's today going so far? When did he wake up?

Barbara
x

 

[* Paula *]

Hugs hun, sorry you are having such a rough time again.

I am thinking it might be time for a routine tweak, but before you do this, you need to try and combat that EW.

Have you thought about doing W2S?  I know you don't know exactly what time he is waking, but perhaps set your alarm for about 4:30 - 4:45am, and rouse him a little bit, and see if you can get him into a deeper sleep.  If this works, you may be able to start your day on a good foot.

I would then consider extending A times.  At around 5 months, they can do about 2.25 hours A time, so try and increase a little and see how he does?

[~Emma~]

 Paula - You must think i'm a total idiot for always getting myself in these pickles!! 

Have thought about w2s but it has never worked for naps. I have no problem with leaving him in there having a wee blether to himself but it totally messes up the rest of the day. I too think A times need to go up a bit but I can't seem to get there what with this EW business.

 Thanks for the advice and encouragement Barbara, it is  very much appreciated.

Today has gone like so thus far...totally different from yesterday but hey ho!

Awake?

E. 6.30
A. ? - 8.05 Couldn't push out any longer
S. 8.05 - 10.15 resettle at 8.45 but DID go down independantly

E. 10.30 Sleepy on feed....how can this be!
A. 10.15-12.15
S. 12.15 - Now! Had to resettle at 30 mins

I have had to resettle for each nap but it has been easier to this today than yesterday. I don't understand, he WAS doing 2.25ish A time before the EW''s. Before putting him down for the last nap he was getting really fussy, but again he went down by himself, I think he could have gone down alot earlier than that. (well the 30 min wake up tell me as much). I know I should be reading him rather than the clock but if I go by him he'll catnap all day long!

Today is going alot better but I need to go to the supermarket and his next nap will be in the car. Bank Holiday madness in Cornwall!!

 Things could be a whole lot worse and i wouldn't be so botheres about this if the couple of weeks previous were not perfect! He CAN do this....little monkey!

 I am very scared of doing w2s in the early hours BUT saying that when he had the 3am waking he slept until 6.20 which I think is quite a reasonable time to be getting up. MMMmmmmm.....I'll have to talk DH into that one methinks.

Sorry for rambling....I get so frustrated with myself. 

Emma xxx

[* Paula *]

Huge hugs hun.  Don't talk like that    These lo's are little monkeys.  Once we think we have things going well, they always throw us a curve ball.

My DS was a total Textbook baby with angel thrown in there, and when I had DD she always kept me second guessing.  She too was textbook, but she was a bit more touchy when it came to the sleep side.  With DS, if we were a bit late, it did not make any difference.  Wih DD, she would have a meltdown.

Even now she keeps me second guessing 

Ok when did the EW's start?  Was there anything different that happened to that particular day, that caused EW's the next day?  Is his reflux under control?  Does he seem fussy at all?  What about teething?  Any signs of those little peggies moving up in the gums?

I do think it is worth giving W2S a try.  It never worked for naps with my DD, but did help us conqure our habitual NW's and EW's.  I made sure her room was dark when I went in, so that she could not see me.  I would move her a bit, and as she stirred I would put her dummy in (not sure if brodie takes a dummy), and it would be just like she had moved in her sleep and put herself back to sleep.  I kept it going for 3 or 4 days to make sure we had broken the habit.  It was hard work, especially getting up at 4:30 in the AM, but it did the trick.