N/W Support for Spirited Babies, Thread #2

[sherry lynn]

Toni - I say go for it. I'm pretty convinced the NW are napping related. personally I would give 5 hours A time a shot. I put Lyle down at 11 all the time these days. If naps go to pot then just put her to bed early.

[abig09]

hello, new to this thread, hope that somebody can help. My lo is 14 wks old and I think that she is Spirited. Nights and bedtimes are very difficult at the moment. I'll see if I can explain it without writing the longest post in history!

She's 14wks old and has been waking regularly in the night, particuarly frequently in the last month - between every 90 mins and 2 1/2 hrs. Last night it was every 90 mins and I can't do this for much longer! I was putting it down to growth spurts and starting to teeth, but not sure I can blame all that for a month's worth of sleepless nights.

She is bf, weighs 5.2kg and won't take a dummy.

Bedtimes are difficult - she seems to go off most easily at around 6.30-7pm, but then wakes 30mins-1 hr later and won't go back down til 9.30ish. So last night we decided to 'go with the flow' and try for a 9pm ish bedtime - it was a nightmare, despite a late quick nap, she ended up ot and screeching til 10pm.

I'm sure this must have happened to other people - what did you do? How did you stay sane?

[sherry lynn]

Welcome abig09 - A lot of us found the 4 month mark to be extremely difficult. Have you successfully moved to a 4-hour easy. I imagine something is going on with that.

[SylvieA]

Well Zoe woke up several time again last night. I think she's teething though, but it could also be time for a change of routine. Somehow I have to change things every few weeks with her. She was up at 630 this morning, had her morning nap from 930-1030, she was  half falling asleep while having her morning snack. We had lunch at 1130 then we went to the park for a bit and she fell asleep on the way home at 1, so I put her back to bed and she slept till 215, so another short nap. My delima now is when do I put her down for the night. I feel like she can't handle more than 4hr A time and that's with a day with 1 good nap. She'll have to be in bed by 6 to avoid any OT and that might be to late. I feel like we're in for a lot of adjustment. Maybe I should take this opertunity and just go ahead and switch her to one nap and see how things go. She hasen't had her usual 1.5-2hr nap in a few days. What would you do? I feel like we'll never get it.

[SylvieA]

Well tried the short AM and long PM nap and it mad things worst. I'll be going back to long AM nap. If it wasn't for her being a fussy little girl due to teething, I think I'd be doing the switch. I'm just fed up with the NW. I'm starting work first week of August and I want these NW gone. We're not sending DD to daycare and I'll be working night shift so I can't handle being up all night with her and all day. I'll need some solid sleep plus nap when she does.

[A pair of Charlies]

How's everyone's nights going?

[SylvieA]

We still have NWs. A few weeks ago, we had a pretty good stretch where we only had 1NW, and a few of those nights were before midnight, so I feed her thinking she's hungry as she always takes a good feed on both sides, then slept through till 630-7am. No routine is woking well. We tried short am, long pm nap and made things worst, so we're back to long am, short pm, but our days are getting longer and nights shorter again, so I'll have to start moving her naps forward a bit or shorten the am nap. Her routine has been so inconsistent that I have co clue what to do. Some days she can barely do 3hrs A time and some days she'll do 4hrs no problem.  What to do???

[A pair of Charlies]

Ours are okay at the mo. Apart from me finding myself asleep in the sofa hunched over the laptop in the wee hours. 

I remember that around 10 months I got into a real messy OT UT cycle with DS. For the same reasons - a rough night without good sleep and he couldn't do a decent am A time. Our days generally stretched a lot for several months too - I think some days would last 13.5 hours thanks to EW and attempting to squeezing in the naps with a long enough A before bed.

I found, with Sherry's help, that I had to closely watch DS's behaviour, keep a sleep log (even if it's just in your head) and sometimes be brave... so what I mean is that when you 'know' they've had a good hit of sleep at night (say 11h) but are showing tired signs after 3h, then I'd push it a little because I 'knew' he'd had good sleep. Other times, I'd watch him closely for any hints he was ready for his pm nap, as he didn't show any signs at all - I'd put him down for a nap and he'd resist for hours as OT. Grrr...

I started cutting the nap times at 9 / 10 months. At 10m I knew that he wouldn't sleep well if he had more than 2h15m (or maybe 2h30m) total day sleep.

It is really hard doing the switch. I felt obsessive!!!

Jane: we only ever go away to stay at my folks. And that is now a nightmare. DS used to sleep the whole journey happily so I always drive at night. Now, he doesn't sleep - even when it's dark. Car lights I guess. So he's awake most of the 5 h drive. Then when we're there, I really struggle to get him to nap or go to sleep at night. He won't independent sleep there either. It is a huge cotbed in a cramped room, with a bookcase overshadowing it. I think that doesn't help. He's used to a cot against a wall with a clear view of the whole room and, importantly, the door.

I'm down there for 5 days next week. Hope to sort the sleep somehow.

Hope everyone's nights improve

Charlotte

[Beata]

OOOOOH, I think it just dawned on me TODAY that my little Miss Elli is spirited! THe quiz was tricky because for some questions I can pick up to 3 answers, but in general I had the most spirited answers....although she is "happy" spirited at least for the most part. But now that she's older, things are harder....getting her to bed, changing her...keeping our days consistent. THe only consistent thing is NW...sound like many of your posts...many early wakings (seems like she can't settle in for the night).

DH had her for about 24 hours while I went out of town with DD1 and she drank about 40 ounces in that period (some in her cereal). So two of my questions were answered...is she getting enough food in the day and is she really hungry at night (yes to both). Unfortunately, she is totally freaked out by me leaving the room, etc nit that I am back! Is this an age (almost 8 mo) where the los are prone to SA?

DD1 is sick, so I am just juggling to get DD2 back onto "Mommy's" routine and then try to sort out  "WHY?!" there are so many NWs. Part of our problem is she full on crawls and stands and cruises, and had no idea how to lay herself down to sleep. We practice "sitting back down" but how do you get them to lay down? Or is it lie down?" I partly feel though she's physically doing things early, she might not be "mentally" ready for this stuff. Does that make sense? Anyhow...

on good days we get 2, 1.5 - 2 hour naps, on bad maybe one good nap. I try to not go more than 3.5 hours in the evening, and no more than 3 early in the day, but I think this need tweaking.

Well good to be on board, good luck tonight everyone!

[shresmummy]

Hi ladies, after the night I had yesterday I thought I could do with a place to share my woes!!! We went cold turkey to wean NFs about a month back and now I don't really feed her at night at all. Sometimes if she wakes around 5:30 I feed her.

But it hasn't really cut down the NWs. I"m not sure whether it's due to a need to routine tweak or teething or a whole bunch of other stuff, but just wanted to get on board and say hi.

I'm hope everyone has a good night and weekend!

[shresmummy]

Hi! Thanks for your response. I didn't actually realise until yesterday there was a NW support for spirited babes. And BOY I could do with that!! I actually have a separate thread running, and Sherry, who I noticed was also on this board, has been helping me along with a few other lovely ladies.

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=150886.msg1714186#msg1714186

Jane, I tried once for a few days to limit the AM nap. IT worked for 2 days and then everything went crazy and I didn't know where to head from there. So I went back to letting her sleep the way she wants during the day and yesterday's routine was decent one, but we still had NW and EWs..yuck!

Wake - 6:50 and BF
A time - 6:50 - 10:35 (she seems to handle between 3hr 45 - 4 hr A time before Am na)
S - 10:35- 11:50 I didn't wake her
A - 11:50 - 3
S - 3 - 3:40 (woke up happy after short nap)
A - 3:40 - 6:40 (I put her to bed early after a short PM nap)
S - 6:50 - (NWs - brief crying ag 10:30, 12-ish, 2-ish, up at 5:20!!!)

I fed her at 5:20 but she really didn't settle back to sleep. She slept on/off while feeding and then woke up bright at chirpy around 5:50/6 AM. Grrrr!!

I have been trying to keep her AM nap time consistent (between 10:15 - 10:45). Despite the EW today I put her down a bit early around 10:10 AM. We'll see.....

[KylersMom]

Hi there,
I think I have a spirited 5 month old on my hands.  We have been struggling with sleep, for, oh, about 5 months.  He continues to wake up and want to play in the middle of the night.  He is sometimes awake for 2 to 2 and 1/2 hours!  It seems to me that he has short A times in the day because of his rough night, but doesn't nap well either.  Here is our "routine."

8:00 awake
8:30 bf - doesn't usually take a full feed
9:00 cereal
9:30 nap takes awhile to settle in - lots of fussing - sleeps from around 10 to 10:30
10:30 to 11 or later, I keep trying to get him back to sleep - sometimes he goes for another 1/2 hour
11:30 bf
12:30 nap - again lots of fussing - sleeps from around 1 to 1:30 and I keep trying for more....
3:00 bf
4:45 try for catnap - rarely works - if it does it takes a looooong time to settle
6:30 bath, then bf
7:00 bed - again lots of fussing - sleep at around 8:00
10:45 pm - bf - sometimes wakes up and wants to play
nightwaking around 2 am and sometimes up for 2 hours and if he wakes again around 4:30 or 5:00 I feed him because I'm not sure if he's hungry.  He sometimes takes a full feed, sometimes only one breast, but doesn't nurse to sleep. 

It seems that we're in a vicious cycle and I don't know how to get out of it.  Is this his nature or am I doing something to keep him awake?

[sherry lynn]

KylersMom - Hi.
I went through the same exact thing at 5 months. It is actually the short A times that is causing the long NW.
I was so reluctant to push out the A times because he was just so tired in the morning. Well a whole month later, of every single night going through that. I just pushed him to 2 hours A time cold turkey at 6 months. I couldn't take it anymore.
He did wake up OT from his naps. But, thankfully, a lot of the time I could get him back down.
I'm not saying you have to go cold turkey, but you definitely need to push those A times out.

That is why he is fussing when he goes down, and why you are having such a hard time extending the nap. If you push him, even to the point where he is a little OT you might find that extending the naps becomes easier.

I  think this is a common mistake we make as moms of spirited LOs because we fight the OT for soooo long when they are just little bitty things, that we are reluctant to move out the A times, because they are genuinely tired, but they are tired because they are keeping us up all night

Moving to a  4 hours easy didn't solve all our napping issues, but it did get a whole lot better, and the NW became very quick just need resettling, rather than 2 hour long sagas  

[A pair of Charlies]

I think I have a spirited 5 month old on my hands.  We have been struggling with sleep, for, oh, about 5 months.

You're in good company!! The spirited can be tricksy sleepers IMO  .

Sherry's posted exactly what I'd do and did.  I was reluctant to increase A times because the OT monster attacked so badly and so often before BUT my DS did big jumps in A time. Like he'd wake up one day and just seem to need an extra 15 mins awake time! Took me a while to recognise the cues of wakeful NWs - introducing their own unofficial A time. Once I did, things got lots better. 

Charlotte

[KylersMom]

I noticed he was a little behind the norm with A times.  You're right, I'm terrified of him being OT.  It is ugly. So, you're suggesting that I ignore his sleep cues for awhile and keep him up for 2 hours before naps?  It's worth a try!  I'll try over the weekend and get back to you.  Thanks!