Naps!! SOS

[gavinsmum1]

I'd like to have some input here as to WHERE to begin.  I've had my 4 month old son Jesse on EASY (off and on) since he was 4 weeks.  He is what I believe to be a textbook/touchy baby.  Great temperament, but needs to be eased into things.  At three months we weaned him off the paci and he's been sucking his thumb to sleep since that point. He's swaddled with one arm out. He is breast fed and bottle fed an EBM/formula combination.   I've got a massive letdown when bf and Jesse takes short bf, but still lasts a good 3 hours+. He was on a PERFECT three hour EASY up until a week ago when we saw a HUGE jump in nw and naps became shorter and shorter. He was also starting to take larger feeds and go longer in between. I know we're needing to transition him to the 4 hour EASY, but we're struggling with the A times and the nw.  Here is what the last documented day looked like:
Tues, May 5
awake @ 6:10 babbling
6:30 pooped went in changed and tried to get him back to sleep- no success
E 7:10 10 minutes
A
S 8-9 am left him in bed to mantra cry for 50 minutes finally got him up @9:50
E 10:20 6 oz.
A
S 10:55-12:35 (cried at the 50 minute mark, but settled himself)
A
E1:45 6 3/4 oz.
A
S 2:45-4
A
E 5:05 5 1/2 oz.
S 5:50-6:20 ( this catnap is not normally so late, but he didn't settle very quickly until about 20 minutes after being put down, so he obviously wasn't tired enough. He falls asleep easily within 10 minutes)
A
E 7:10- 4oz. (just a top up:))
S 8pm (he appeared to settle around 7:30, but woke and wiggled for about 30 minutes) This was a late bedtime, but the catnap seemed to mess this up.

A few other notes:
Jesse was normally waking about two times a night.  One for feeding (around 4 or 4:30) and the other because of a bm (power poop around 3 am or sometimes 6am) We've noticed the last couple of nights that he's having waking at 1, 2 or 3, 5ish and having a bm around 6 and not being able to settle.  The 1 and 5 am wakings he usually settles on his own, but the 2 or 3 am nw he cries until we go in and turn him on his side and just reassure him.  He STTN two nights in a row earlier last week, but things have gone terribly wrong since then.  His naps have shortened even more but I think that's because his 1st nap has been shortened to about just over an hour and he's having a hard time with a longer a, getting OT for the rest of the day.  I'm hoping that there's something I'm missing here, because Jesse was a consistently good napper and eater until just a week ago when things began unraveling.  Any insight would be appreciated.  I've got a toddler at home that I've had great success with BW methods and am desperately hoping to iron out Jesse's routine!! 

Jenn

[becky1969]

Gosh, those multiple NWs sound like pain/discomfort to me.  I'm wondering if he's starting to get teeth? This is what happened to my textbook/touchy at this exact age! And when I see multiple wakings like that, it's usually what we're seeing.  Are his poo's particularly smelly right now?  Or is he too young for the smelly poos?

Your routine doesn't look bad.  At just 4 months, 1h50 is an OK A time.  Most LOs start out around 1h45 at this age.  If you think he's having trouble at this A time, you could dfinitely shorten by 5-10 minutes and see if that irons things out -- leave him there for 2-3 days, though, to make sure that's the issue.  The 4 hour EASY will come on it's own once LO can stretch to 2 hours A time and naps lengthen out.  You may just be in a transitional state and perhaps have an exogenous force like teeth that are making it harder for him to sleep, particularly at night.  Teeth often make them more tired than normal, so even though he seemed ready to increase A time a week ago it's possible that teeth are making him sleepy and causing him to regress on A time.

so, any signs of teeth?

[gavinsmum1]

Wow, bang on.  That was the one thing that I excluded from my posting (not on purpose though, but I completely forgot it!)  He's cutting his first tooth (we can see the actual tooth coming through).  He's actually handled 2 hours A time as well, but I think it's been too much for him lately.  We've hovered around the 1 h 45- 1 h 50 minute A time, but I guess this teething has really thrown us and Jesse.  My first did not cut a tooth until 9 months. 

[becky1969]

I had to shorten A time before naps and bedtime by 15-30 minutes when my son was teething.  Try 15 minutes earlier first, and then cut by 5 minutes every 3 days until he's napping well again.  Also, make sure medicating at night before bed, and renew meds when wear off.  At this age, I think Tylenol is your only option and unfortuantely it's pretty short acting (4 hours).

Hopefullly he'll be a fast teether! My textbook/touchy took 2 weeks exactly (almost to the minute  that's the textbook part of his personality I guess!) for each and every tooth. 'Till the 2 year molars which took THREE MONTHS each. Ack.

[gavinsmum1]

(Groan) I've got one just starting and the other isn't even finished. I guess I really underestimated the impact it would have at this young an age.  This morning he pulled a 1 1/2 hour nap, but I haven't heard from my husband how things went for the rest of the day.  He's at his mom's place for the weekend.  Things have just been too much for us the last week or so and he took Jesse out to his parents for a bit of a break for me. This transition and the teething have made me into a bit of a mad-hatter.  I'm missing him terribly though, despite the disaster the last couple of days have been.  Should I start stretching those A times once the naps start hitting the 45 minute mark again?

[becky1969]

Yes, once you start getting short naps that will tell you he's ready to stretch A times.

I had an early teether as well and it was awful.  We got him STTN at 3 months and were so proud of ourselves! Being a first time mom I was like "Well, got sleep training off our list. Check!"  Boy was I dumb.  1 blissful month later the sleep junk started again because of teeth! ARRRGGGGH! And he just popped 1 tooth after another that first year.  As he got older some teeth bothered him less than others, so every tooth phase wasn't awful.  But I've come to think from my work here on BW that touchies just are awful teethers.  It's just in their nature -- they *feel* everything more.  So makes sense that teeth drive them wild! LOL!

Hope you enjoy your break! It will help you come at the problem with a fresh set of eyes!

[gavinsmum1]

Becky, thanks so much for your quick response. It has been such a relief these last two days having just one child to focus on instead of two and the housework and the meal preparation, and the doctor's appointments, etc., etc.  It allowed me to step back and realize that my son's not sleeping because of discomfort and NOT because he wants to test my patience or drive me bananas.  I give my husband so much credit as he knows what to do when ALL the time.  I'm sure that they'll be back today and we'll get rolling back better than before and straighten things out through this transition.
Again, thanks for your support.
Jenn

[gavinsmum1]

So the family is back together, but things have not changed.  Jesse napped and woke only once or twice each night he was sleeping in the playpen at his grandma's with Dad.  Last night, back in his own bed, he woke at 9:45 (hunger), 1:15, 2:20-3:00 (hunger- took 4 oz), 5:15, and was awake on and off from that point until 7:15.  Another brutal night!! We think that it may be discomfort, but not from teething.  We put a curved change mattress (or pad) in his bed because we think that he is just uncomfortable on the mattress in his crib.  What else could it be?  His room is the same in terms of noise, light, temperature, etc., as at his Grandma's place, so it's got to be the bed.  We had a CD player playing white noise in his crib that we also removed and put underneath the crib slightly louder and we're hoping that this is going to resolve these nasty night wakings.  Yesterday he even pulled a 2 hour nap away from home, which he hasn't done here at home in MONTHS.

[gavinsmum1]

Also, this might be in play- Jesse was fed a mix of bm and formula until they left for Grandma's the other day, but the bm supply ran out, so he was fed strictly formula.  How much of an impact could this have on his sleeping?

[becky1969]

Well, it sure makes me wonder if he's got an allergy and that something YOU'RE eating is bothering him.  You can find plenty of info about common allergens all over, and perhaps on the BF site here at BW (or you can post a ? asking about it!).  Didn't BF, so can't help you a ton, but *do* know that milk is a common problem, was even for my son.  Also, one of my friends was having horrible NWs with her DD then realized she was eating a bean burrito every day for lunch, LOL! It was giving her DD HORRIBLE gas.  So take a strong look at your diet, visit the BF board and see if there's some foods you can cut out of your diet for a bit! You might even experiment and FF for a day or two and see if the NWs reduce.  If they do, then you know it's a BM problem that is either due to production (not enough milk), letdown (maybe putting too much gas in his tummy), or the foods you're eating.  BF board can probably help you more!  But definitely I think you might be on the right track now!

[Winny]

Hi, I like to get some advice as to how to get my 10 months old to take nap when she is outside home. She used to sleep in her pram till 5 months. She could not sleep in other people's house, so it is very hard for us to get out of home at all.
She is an independant sleeper, and used to sleep in her cot. That's why she is not used to sleep in her pram anymore. When we are in shopping centres, she would just keep crying, but no sign of closing her eyes. As a result, we have to wrap up everything early and rush back home, otherwise she will be OT. Should I make some effort to train her to sleep in her pram again? But how?

[becky1969]

winny - afraid you're stuck.  my son never would nap on the go either.  too much to watch/observe.  Plus he's *very* overwhelmed my newness - sounds, people, smells, sights all really keep him alert.  A time will lengthen and make this less of an issue.  In about 6 months time you'll be on 1 nap and then running about will be MUCH easier!  But my son hasn't slept in the car or stroller since about 6 months old either.  Even on 4+ hour car trips!

[Winny]

Oops! There is a long way to go , thanks for sharing that with me! At least I know that I am not ALONE! 

[gavinsmum1]

Okay.  5 nw last night.  We are definitely stuck in rut here and desperate to get out.  Our EASY is just enable to move forward and I'm looking for encouragement or advice.  Jesse's morning feed has now been reduced to 3 or 4 oz.  He's still taking a nf at 4:00 or 4:30 and I think it's saboutaging the rest of the day.  Here's why:
This is today's EASY
nf 4:15 am
wake and feed 7:00- 3 oz.
nap#1 (very tired after all those nw) 8:25-9:50
E 10:05 (couldn't go much further on only 3 oz.) 6 1/2 oz.
nap #2 11:35-1:05
E (crying bloody murder according to my hubby) 3 oz
took another 1/2 oz. before going for nap#3
nap#3 2:40-3:45
E 4:55 7oz.
CN Just went down at 5:35
We'll give him a top up at around 7:15 and in bed by 7:30
We've had to move his df up to 10:00, but he's even been waking before that time hungry the last couple of nights and taking around 5oz. Not really good enough to take him until the morning!!
What should we do here.  He's obviously ready to go a bit longer between feeds and capable of taking 7 oz.  It seems like his body is so used to being fed at certain times that we're struggling moving that second feed any further along because his first feed is so small due to the nf, which he needs because he's not taking a good enough df.  What are some options here for cutting out feeds and helping with naps, etc.?

[gavinsmum1]

Becky,
I was just reading over your advice to lilianna and her 6 month old.  That sounds sort of what is going on with Jesse.  All those nw.  I remember my son Gavin to be chronically OT because of the 45 minute nap monster, and he NEVER woke as much as Jesse is waking.  I'm going to try looking up that Calme Forte, and in the meantime try Motrin again.  Maybe I'm still underestimating the affect that tooth is having on Jesse.  Thanks again SO much for your advice.