2 yr old transition from crib to bed

[jenlynnshatz]

Help we just switched our 2 yr old from her crib to a mattress on the floor to transition the bed. first few nights were not bad but now she just keeps jumping out of hte crib. we put a gate in her doorway but she usued to be sleeping by 7:45/8pm and now she is awake until after 9pm and having multiple night wakings per night. We have tosit in the room while she falls asleep. its so painful and i feel like we are moving backwards from the crib to the bed. what do i do to prevent bad habits from forming. i know silent treatment and keep laying her down without making eye contact. should i be leaving the room each time. i don't want her to hate her bed. she never loved the crib. now she sleeping less and cranky.

HELP!

[deckchariot]

How long ago did you make the switch?  She may just need a bit more time.  In terms of how to deal with her NWs  - I would use wi/wo - where you do actually leave the room.  Here's a link that explains that and a link on the crib to bed transition that should be helpful:

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=80750.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=81192.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=113115.0

hth
michelle

[Pens Fan]

Hi ya,

We had a similar situation but started about a week after the transition.  We made sure that we spent a little bit more time in the bedroom in the day playing with and on the bed and made it fun.  We also kept her in her sleeping bag to encourage not wondering around.  I remember one nap time she was up in her room not crying but pretty happy - but she did not want to sleep - and she had every book out of her bookshelf on the floor.

I agree I would try WIWO and the gate is a good plan.

Cheers
Eliz

[jenlynnshatz]

We did it 2 weeks ago but my daughter has bad sleep history and i am afarid to start a bad habit. we are doing gradual method but even sititing with her patting her takes an hour and half to go to bed so i don't see how we will gradually move away.  i am not sure if we should try walk in and walk out of the back. i am also debating taking her nap away. it just took me from 1pm to 2pm to get her down for a nap. she usually sleeps about an hour to an hour and half. would tiring her our more help or make her more overtired. she is 26 months old.

How long ago did you make the switch?  She may just need a bit more time.  In terms of how to deal with her NWs  - I would use wi/wo - where you do actually leave the room.  Here's a link that explains that and a link on the crib to bed transition that should be helpful:

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=80750.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=81192.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=113115.0

hth
michelle

How long ago did you make the switch?  She may just need a bit more time.  In terms of how to deal with her NWs  - I would use wi/wo - where you do actually leave the room.  Here's a link that explains that and a link on the crib to bed transition that should be helpful:

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=80750.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=81192.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=113115.0

hth
michelle

[Pens Fan]

My personal experience is not to make too many changes at once.  I would not take the nap away because you have moved her to a bed. 

Cheers Eliz

[deckchariot]

I wouldn't take the nap away either - it will most likely result in her being OT and that will only make the nights worse.

[jenlynnshatz]

It's been almost a month since we transitioned my daughter to a bed and we have not made too much progress. I decided gradual method would be better than wi/wo since that is what worked with her crib and wi/wo only worked after a very long time using the gradual method. at first i patted her to sleep, then i sat next to her bed. each time she would pop out of the bed i gently laid her down without talking to her and making eye contact. now i am sitting in her doorway on the same side of the gate as her. everytime she pops up i lay her back down. it takes about 45 min to get her sleep wihcih is an improvement but she is waking up all night.

Here are my issues:
1. We are just using a mattress w/ no rails. i think i may add the railings to give her some boundaries.
2. even though i get her to sleep without patting her she keeps waking up! how do i transition out of the room if what we are doing now is not even working. on a good night she has 2-3 night wakings but many nights it's as many as 6.

She is in the bed between 10-11 hrs but having broken up sleep. She only takes a 1 hr nap in the afternoon so she and i are both very tired!

3. i am accidental parenting to get her nap so she is not overtired for the nighttime. isn't that right based on what i read in the book? i figured if i could get nighttime to work, i can then adjust nap. unfortunately i never had the nap right. when she was in the crib she fell asleep on her own at night but i always held her to fall asleep for her nap b/c she was such a bad napper.

I welcome any advice!
Jen

[jenlynnshatz]

It's been almost a month since we transitioned my daughter to a bed and we have not made too much progress. I decided gradual method would be better than wi/wo since that is what worked with her crib and wi/wo only worked after a very long time using the gradual method. at first i patted her to sleep, then i sat next to her bed. each time she would pop out of the bed i gently laid her down without talking to her and making eye contact. now i am sitting in her doorway on the same side of the gate as her. everytime she pops up i lay her back down. it takes about 45 min to get her sleep wihcih is an improvement but she is waking up all night.

Here are my issues:
1. We are just using a mattress w/ no rails. i think i may add the railings to give her some boundaries.
2. even though i get her to sleep without patting her she keeps waking up! how do i transition out of the room if what we are doing now is not even working. on a good night she has 2-3 night wakings but many nights it's as many as 6.

She is in the bed between 10-11 hrs but having broken up sleep. She only takes a 1 hr nap in the afternoon so she and i are both very tired!

3. i am accidental parenting to get her nap so she is not overtired for the nighttime. isn't that right based on what i read in the book? i figured if i could get nighttime to work, i can then adjust nap. unfortunately i never had the nap right. when she was in the crib she fell asleep on her own at night but i always held her to fall asleep for her nap b/c she was such a bad napper.

I welcome any advice!
Jen

[deckchariot]

Jen - I'm sorry we've not gotten back to you ....we just moved and my dd has been a bit out of sorts.  {{{{hugs}}}}} to you on the switch.  We've just begun it, and I'm prepared for a rough go....

The idea with gw is not that you stay there all night - once you get her to sleep, leave, then you'll need to decide how you want to handle NWs - is she waking and calling for you?  crying?  getting out of bed?  Most parents find that they need to be super consistent with how they handle the NWs - and have as little interaction with their bubs as possible.  I suspect the lengthy time of GW and the APing for naps is not helping the NWs any.  Have you tried wi/wo for the NWs?

Can you post her routine in terms of when she naps and when she wakes and goes to bed, we may be able to tweak the routine a bit to help as well.   Hang in there!!!

[jenlynnshatz]

Thanks for getting back to me.   I do leave after she falls asleep. The problem is that i am 10 wks pregnant and so tired and sick so i am thinking of doing the plan when i feel better b/c i don't have the stamina right now. my husband has been helpful in dealing with nw but he is not as consistent as me and can't ignore her which does not help nw. Although if you have any suggestions sooner i would love to hear them b/c the longer we wait the worse it is to break bad habits as i have learned  in the past.

anyway, i hope to feel better in a few weeks. here is samantha's routine:

Wakes 7am (Sometimes wakes between 5-6am but i usually go in an pat her back to sleep b/c she needs more rest)

Breakfast 8am

Snack 10:30/11am

Lunch 12/12:30pm

Nap -
 - 1:30pm i take her upstairs to wind down, read 2 books like the nighttime routine then lay with her until she falls asleep
- 2pm-2:30pm average time she falls asleep
- 3-4pm wakes up.

*When she wakes by 3:30 nightime is not so bad b/c she is tired but when she wakes up close to 4pm it's harder to get her down at night so i know the nap should be earlier but she does not seem tired at 1pm

Dinner 5:30pm

Bath 6:45/7pm

Bedtime routine
 - get her dressed, read 2 books, sing a song in bed.
 - Lately she does not fall asleep until close 9pm and we have to stay in the room until she falls asleep otherwhise she gets of bed and cries at the gate in her door.
- On early nap days when she falls asleep at 1pm or does not nap i can get her to sleep by 8pm but not often these days

Then she typically wakes between 11pm and 12am, then again around 2am, sometimes another time, then does her early wake up at 5-6am when i usually can get her back to sleep. Some times she gets up even more than this!

As for NW my husband has been handling most since i am so tired but I am going to need to do it to get consistent. I am trying to do WI/WO. Usually she sits up and cries and we watch in the video monitor and sometimes she goes back herself. If not she gets out of bed and cries at the gate for either my husband or me. We go in lay her down, rub her back and she usually goes back fairly quickly. It's such broken up sleep for all of us!

We have issues with a bed rail (broken, etc). Finally a bed rail is coming this week and I want to revamp her bed with new sheets, the bed rail and try to put a chair next to her bed and slowly make my way out of the door. The problem is this is what I did at 17 mo old to get her to sleep in the crib and it worked. Finally I got the doorway and left while she was settling but now she can just get out of the bed.

I am so tired. I have been accidental parenting for her nap b/c i learned a long time ago it's better to get her to nap somehow than not at all so she is not overtired.

Any suggestions?

Thanks

[deckchariot]

She definitely does sound OT.  And big {{{{{{hugs}}}}} to you, dealing with all this and being pg does not help.  In terms of her routine, I'm wondering about moving the nap earlier.  I know you say that she doesn't seem tired at 1, but that may be because she's actually a bit OT.  Your plan for gradual withdrawal with the bedrail and chair sounds like an excellent plan!  I'd actually encourage you to do it for naps as well.  At this age, our bubs are soooooooooooooo quick to pick up on inconsistencies in the routine (even those that we plan) that it could be working against you.  With the NWs, I would try to wean off the back rubbing - I think that's probably "convincing" her that she cannot put herself back to sleep without your help.  When she wakes and gets out of bed, walk her back to her bed, say a key phrase (like you'd do with wi/wo in a crib "it's time for night night...you need to stay in your bed) and walk out.  I would definitely wait until you are feeling up to it and/or dh is totally on board.  We've found that if we are super consistent with wi/wo for NWs, it only takes a few nights for her to stop waking for us.  We just switched our dd to a bgb as well and are in the midst of this too - only it's more for her when we first put her down at bedtime.

I know this may sound contradictory, but I might actually start her bedtime a wee bit later - not that her bedtime is later, but just starting the routine later - it's possible that she's not ready for bed when you're starting the routine, so things end up dragging on, where if you start just 15 - 20 min later it might actually go more easily.  I'm just guessing on that one (we're experimenting with that plan, as we're having LONG wind downs to bedtime lately too.).

Hang in there!!!

[jenlynnshatz]

Hello my nausea and fatigue from the pregnancy have finally subsided.  I can now take over the sleep training from my husband. We have made some progress. I have gotten as far as standing in the hallway outside her room and a few times even left and went into the next room while she fell asleep. I have been doing walk in/walk out but it STILL TAKES AN HOUR TO FALL ASLEEP! I can hardly get her asleep before 9pm. I moved her nap earlier to 1/1:30pm so she is more tired for nighttime. I tried WI/WO for nap but there was a week where she did not nap. Now I need to stand in the hallway for her nap but that usually goes down quick. She is not ready to give up her nap. she is only 27 months and when she skips her nap wants to nap at 5pm but i won't let her. How long does Wi/WO take to work for falling asleep?  She is doing better as far as nightwakings. She wakes briefly once or twice a nght but we do WI/WO and she usually goes right back. Her schedule is wacky b/c she falls asleep 9pm and sleeps until 8 am when she is really tired but usually wakes at 7am. 

What is your advice for next steps? I would really love a few months of good sleep before my next baby comes

[deckchariot]

It does sound like you've made some significant progress - so don't discount that!!  What's her current routine like?  It may just need some more adjustment.  If she's waking at 7, napping at 1/1:30 - how long is her nap?  What time do you start the bedtime routine?  It sounds like you're doing wi/wo just right, and the gradual withdrawal has worked to at least get you out of the room.  Hang in there!!!

[jenlynnshatz]

Here's her current routine:

Wakes between 7-8am
Breakfast between 8-8:30am
lunch 12pm
Nap btwn 1/1:30pm sometimes goes down as late as 2pm and sleeps for about 1 hr on average. Usually wakes by 3pm
Dinner 5:30pm
Bath 7/7:15pm
Then get dressed, read stories, sing songs and calm until about 7:45/8pm.
Actually falls asleep by 9pm with WI/WO. If I sit in the hallway she'll fall asleep as early as 8:45pm

Wakes 1-2 times per night but goes right back if I do WI/WO

Am I better off stop sitting in the hallway and do WI/WO even if she falls alseep later? WI/WO has not worked for naps. If I do it for an hr and she does not fall alseep for a nap I skip the nap b/c she thinks its a game and I don't want her napping to late.  I remember reading in teh baby whisperer skip it and keep awake until normal sleep time next.


Let me know what you . Thanks for your advice!

[deckchariot]

You may want to start your bedtime routine a bit later depending on when she wakes up.  Most 2 yo only need 11 - 11.5 hrs of sleep.  My dd (who was 2 in March) wakes about 7:30 and we dont' start her bath (and then her bedtime routine) til 7:30, which puts her in bed around 8/8:15 - we also found that she was taking ages to fall asleep at bedtime (used to be we started at 7:15 in bed around 7:45/8), so we shifted everything a bit and that's helped us out.

It sounds like you're handling the naps well in terms of only trying for an hour with wi/wo.  On those days though, I might put her down a wee bit early to prevent her from becoming OT (since she still does need a nap, missing one entirely might make her too OT at bedtime which will mean longer to fall asleep).

With bedtime - is she getting out of bed and you have to keep taking her back or is she crying?  If you're already outside her room with the gradual withdrawal, you could just switch to wi/wo - knowing that the first few nights it may actually take longer for her to get to sleep but that she will "get" it in the end.  For naps - are you sitting outside her room?  (since with wi/wo you said she just wouldn't nap) If you are, you may find you dont' have much luck with wi/wo at bedtime, because she may just want you there when she falls asleep.  Although since wi/wo is working for NWs, I could be wrong there.  It's up to you, if you want to keep sitting outside her room when she falls asleep because she goes to sleep faster, you could do that.  If you want to wean her off of that, I'd do wi/wo.  If she's getting out of bed rather than staying in bed and crying, then there are some other things you could try as well that might help.

You really are making progress!!!  Hang in there!!