8 wo and short naps

[Padicindy]

Hi there I am new to BW, have been trying to implement EASY on my baby since she returned home. The routine became more stable lately and she is comfortable on a 3 hour routine. However, her naps are sometimes short (45 minutes or an hour) and she would wake up tired and grouchy. So I know it is insufficient for her and I need to help her extend her naps.

I have been trying W2S (putting pressure on her joints when she jerks) for the past 2 days. I would stay with her after she has fallen asleep for about 15 minutes, and put pressure on her joints when she jerks. When she has transited into deep sleep, I would go out of the room. At the 35th minute, I return and watch. When the jerks come on again, I would do the same. If she gets too roused by the jerks, I would pat her back into sleep.

Sometimes, when she isn't OS, she would be able to transit to the next sleep cycle fairly easily with my help. But on other times, she would continue to have difficulties doing so.

Am I doing it right? Sometimes I get so tired from watching her that I fall asleep myself!  Her EASY schedule looks like this:

E  7am
A  8.30am (including wind down)
S  8.30am - 10am (with help from me to coax her back to sleep)
Y

E 10am
A 11.30am
S 11.30am - 1pm
Y

E 1pm
A 2.30pm (including bath)
S 2.30pm - 4pm
Y

E 4pm
A 5.30pm
S 5.30pm - 7pm (she don't usually take the whole nap here, she catnaps usually for about 45 mins)
Y

A 7pm - 7.30pm
E 7.30pm (including wind down)
S 8.30pm - next morning 7am

Tried to coax her back to sleep this morning for her first nap again, and she kept waking up from her jerks!! I get so discouraged sometimes but its only day 3!

[Padicindy]

I had a terrible afternoon nap time today. It took me 1.5hour to put her down for her nap and she slept only 30 mins and woke up. After her feed at 4pm I try to put her down for her nap again but she is wide eyed after I had my usual nap routine and put her in her cot (I have left her in the cot to type this as I am too tired..but she is not fussing or crying). I suspect its got to do with her sleep position and she isn't comfortable. Can anyone suggest various types of sleep positions for babies?

I have her half swaddled. Past days I had a wedge on her tummy so she's kind of on her side. She seems to sleep well like that for the past days. But the last 2 naps (first afternoon nap and the current nap) she seem to find it uncomfortable.

When I try to have her on her back for her naps, she seems to jerk herself out of sleep more easily. I try to add pressure onto her joints but doesn't seem to be as effective as if she was on on her side.

The strange thing is she sleeps on her back in the night and can sleep through the night! So whats so different about day nap positions?

Can anyone advice?

[anna*]

Hi! Welcome to the BW boards   

Honestly I think you're little girl might be overtired. 1.5hrs is just a touch on the high side for 8 weeks, I would try keeping her whole A time to 1hr 15 mins and see if that helps. May I ask why you leave her arms out of the swaddle? If you can swaddle her arms good and tight you may find it helps her to get through the jolts herself.

I hope this helps

[Padicindy]

Thank you for your response Anna. Its nice to receive a nice welcome. Maybe I should try keeping her A to 1hr 15 mins tmr and see if it works.

I left her arm out of the swaddle as sometimes she suckle her hand to soothe herself. We tried to swaddle her good and tight previously but she would scream out in the midst of her nap or sleep. I notice the jerks are usually most distinct and would wake her up are those in her legs. Maybe I should tighten the swaddle at her lower body too. Problem is the weather is really warm where I am and I am already having her only in her diapers. But I'll see if I can find a way.

Thanks Anna will post the outcome tomorrow. I hope its good news!!

[Zoey]

I agree with Anna about your DD sounding a touch OT.  I think reducing her A time is a great idea - sometimes too they need a really short A time first thing in the morning - like even as short as an hour (including wind down) at this age.  Remember that changes in routine do not always yield immediate results.  It may take a few days of shorter A times to see longer naps as a result, so don't get discouraged.

For her arms, I linked you the Aussie swaddle in the other thread you posted in.  Perhaps try that.

When it got warm out here, I cut a sheet in half and swaddled with that

Good Luck!

[Padicindy]

Thanks for your encouragement too Zoey.

Her first nap today was so so..I put her down for her nap she slept at 8.15am. I have her on her side with a wedge in front of her tummy. I stayed with her till she falls into deep sleep, helping her through some of her jerks. That was about 10 to 15 mins. At the 40th minute, she jerked a few times too but was able to ride through them herself. It was only when she was trying to turn her head (she had moved herself from her side to on her tummy! I guess my wedge was too soft she could move and kick it away) that she started to stir more. I patted her on her bum she went bk into la la land till 9.45am. This time, she was again trying to turn her head. she got frustrated, cried and got up. So in total she slept about 1.5hr.

Now I really need to think about her sleep position!! She seems to like the side or tummy position but because she also moves in her sleep, presumably just to get another comfortable position, she wakes herself up! Sigh. Will try again later then. For now, 1.5hr is better than her short nap!

[Padicindy]

Sigh I tried to place her on her back for her 2nd nap at 11.10am (its 11.21am where I am now) and her eyes would rove around! She then started fussing until I flip her to her side again and pat her bum (right at the back of the bum) and she was out in less than 30 seconds!!

Sigh. Now I don't know how to prevent her from moving to lie flat on her tummy! She seems to kick a lot even in her swaddle! Would getting thicker wedges help?

Will wait to see how long this nap last.

[anna*]

(((hugs))) a 1.5 hr nap is great! Maybe she would settle herself if you let her fuss a little bit? It's OK for them to fuss, you only have to go to them if they properly cry and sound upset. You can buy sleep positioners, or you could roll up a towel or something to help to prop her on her side - I used two rolled up baby blankets, one in front and one behind.

[Padicindy]

Thanks Anna for your sweet response. I would usually let her fuss a bit and see if she continues. But I also wonder if they would fuss till they are woken up completely, then we would be unable to extend their naps? Sometimes I really get so confused what to do!

This morning she was not just fussing, but her face got kind of stuck downwards on the mattress! Haha. It was a funny sight but I know she was very frustrated and thus she cried and woke herself completely out of her nap. I had to move her to her back or I think she'll suffocate.

Today's EASY look something like this:

E 7am
A 7am - 8.15am (1 hr 15 min, including WD)
S 8.15am - 9.50am (1 hr and 35 mins)
Y

After this morning nap of 1.5hr, I rolled up towels to use as a wedge. I also stuffed some old clothes into her bean pillow to make it heavier, and stuck the two between her to keep her from rolling forward or backwards for her 2nd nap. Seems to work!

E 9.50am
A 9.50am - 11.10am (1 hr 20 mins)
S 11.10am - 1pm (1 hr 50 mins!! Surprise surprise!! she slept through her sleep cycle on her own without any assistance!! plus she was woken up by my mother who was very enthusiastic about playing with her granddaughter)
Y

E 1.10pm (Grandma played with her for 10 mins before her feed)
A 1pm - 2.30pm (1 hr 30 mins, she had a hard time winding down)
S 2.30pm - 4.15pm (she let out a scream and was almost waking up at the 40th minute. I patted her and within a minute she was back asleep. Lasted till 4.15pm! Good girl!)
Y

E 4.20pm
A 4.15pm - 5.10pm
S (I decided to take a walk in the mall with her in a carrier. she slept in a carrier briefly. Am unsure how long she slept)
Y

A 7.30pm (reached home from mall)
E 7.45pm (now this is where another challenge occurred. She was rejecting my breasts. I thought she was filled and then realized she was still fussing a lot due to hunger! Fed her expressed breast milk instead and I suspect she is rejecting the milk and crying because of some spicy food that I had during lunch. So no more spicy food for me for the moment. )
S 9.30pm
Y

Hoping she'll do another STTN!!

Will monitor for another few days and see how it goes. I will try to aim for 1 hr 15 mins of A time, and also see if she can manage to pull through the jerks herself!

Thanks Anna and Zoey for your encouragement!

[Padicindy]

LO has a EW today. she woke up at 6am and started fussing, her usual day starts at 7am (well she may sometimes wake up earlier than 7am but usually does not call out for us when she does). I didn't go to her till about 7am. I know EW is usually an indicator that the LOs are ready for extended A, but I don't think this may be so in my LO's case? Would it be possible that she can be OT (since she slept only at 9.30pm the night before in spite of doing great naps in the daytime) still and thus did an EW?

[anna*]

Yes. Definitely. EW is often a sign of OT. I would always try to get a 12/12 hour day/night, or 12.5hr day and 11.5hr night, so I would try to have her asleep for the night at 6.30pm tonight.

[Padicindy]

Sigh I came back from a meeting late today and only tucked her into bed at 8.30pm. When I thought she had fallen asleep, she fussed from 9.15pm to 9.30pm. I guess there might be an EW tomorrow. Do I leave her alone in the morning when she fussed? :S

[anna*]

If she's just fussing you can leave her in her crib, if she's really crying then you need to go to her. You could try shush-pat to get her back to sleep until 6.30-7am

[Zoey]

The thing I found difficult about EW is that... even if they aren't full on crying a real "I need you now" cry - they are still awake (obviously if they don't go back to sleep lol).  So that leaves a question as to when the first nap should begin.  Know what I mean?  OT can happen so quickly.

I believe that every baby has a natural bio-rhythmically set time to rise in the morning - usually between 6-7am.  I think if she wakes at 6/615 more often then not, then you should begin using that as her wake up time and start the day then.  If she never falls asleep after she wakes at that time, then that is when her A time is actually beginning.  If she has never fallen back to sleep after waking at 6/615am, then I don't think going in and trying to extend that sleep to 7am would work.  If she wakes at 6am and you don't start counting the A time until 7am - then she is OT by the time her first nap rolls around and that kind of sets you up for a whole day of OT/short naps and the cycle continues on.  Make sense?  If you begin your day at 6/615am then just move the times in your routine up.  I always went by A times and not the clock; regardless of what time something happened, I began counting my known A time block from that time. 

If she wakes up before 6am, I'd asses why - fed if needed and try to help her back to sleep because that would be an early waking.  But really try to figure out the average time she actually wakes up and use that for your start time. 

I think you're EW are OT simply because she is OT at other times affecting her naps. 

I think it's always a good idea to stop and listen and asses a cry before we rush in.  I think this serves many purposes.  If it's a real cry then you go to her.  If she is fussing, listen and see what happens - if the fussing changes to something more, go to her.  You will begin to learn how the cry will progress - it took me a while to figure out when to go in and when to hang back a little.

Just my thoughts

[Padicindy]

I thought there might be an EW, she slept till 7.30pm this morning. I guess she was really tired!

Zoey: I understand what you mean and where you are coming from. If I can identify when she wakes up (I use a baby monitor as she is in the other room) I'll usually start counting her A time from then. Then if it means putting her down after her feed immediately then I will do so.

Ok I will monitor her wake times a bit more, although I used to be such a sleepyhead!! Waking up at 6am-7am is such a challenge! Oh well..motherhood! 

I still struggle with how to put her down for her naps. I usually lay her on her back in the night for her night sleep, and she has no problem STTN (or at least I don't hear anything from the baby monitor! ). But in the day, when I lay her down for her naps, she would get distracted as the room is not dark enough (I don't have black out curtains). I swaddle her still and notice she sleeps better on her side/tummy, but in the last 2 days she seem to want to turn her head while she is sleeping, and she'll end up frustrated as she is swaddled and is unable to turn her head when on her side or tummy. Then she'll wake herself up! I've tried putting wedges on her back but she doesn't seem to like it!

I don't know what to do about the above now! Am going to try slotting her into a swaddle blanket if the weather is not too warm and put her on her back..seeing if it'll work. What do you ladies do if your LO prefers to sleep on her tummy? Having her swaddled would be not quite possible! Even if she's on her side isn't it, esp when she might turn her head during her sleep.