EWs crept back in and taking ages to settle at night

[babymunkey]

Hi Ladies - just need some advice for our 17 month old LO who has suddenly gone back to EWs plus taking AGES to fall asleep at night.

We've been on one nap since just after 12 months, and his routine is/was Mon to Fri
Wake between 7 and 8
Nap from 1ish for 1.5 to 2 hours (getting less and less gradually - was 3 hours when we 1st started 1 nap, now sometimes only 1hr 15, usually 1hr 30)
Bedtime 7.30

Then about 2 weeks ago we started getting earlier wake-ups. For the 1st week we treated them as blips and had him in with us (which we've done in the past with no repercussions) and some days he would doze a bit more, some days not. Its been getting earlier and earlier til we had a 5.45 and a 5.30 this week.

The other problem is getting him to sleep at the end of the day - he's taking between 30 mins and an hour to go down now. I'm listening to him giving DP the runaround as I type - he's giggling his head off. The other night it took an hour of crying for him to go off - we've never had bedtime dramas before even when he was little really.

So - its possible its OT that has snuck up on us for some reason as for the last 2 weeks he's been doing 13 hour days. And/or its time to start cutting back his one nap maybe? He's pretty mush always been a 11.5 to 12 hour sleeper as long as we had our routine OK, but I think I've read that this can change?

Any ideas?

H

[sherry lynn]

Hey Helen,
I'm curious to see what people have to say.
My first thought is that you need to make sure you have 5 hours A time after the first nap. Have you tried to put him down earlier at all lately? To see if that helps at all. I think it is possible that OT has crept up.
Have you noticed any difference between how long he naps after a 7 or an 8 o'clock waking? Does one wake up time produce a better nap over the other? That might give you an idea of what A time he needs before his nap. I think 6 hours A time might just be too much.

[clazzat]

We had this problem with our champion sleeper at a similar age.  I assumed that she was getting ready to sleep less and started cutting her nap and putting her to bed slightly later which made the problem worse.  Once I realised that she was actually OT and let her have more sleep during the day, and moved her bedtime back to where it had been she got back to normal quite quickly.

One of the reasons that we had a problem, I think, was that her morning A time was really long and her afternoon A time was really short - I moved her nap to earlier and that helped.  Our routine became (and still is, 14 months later!):
7am wake
12.30-2.30 sleep
6.45pm bedtime

Cx

[babymunkey]

Thx ladies

He's at the childminders during the week, so she judges the time he goes down - actually she lets him lead as when he's tired he goes and rattles the stairgate to go upstairs! I think mostly he goes down between 1 and 1.30 - you're probably bang on that if he's been up since 6 that's too long - but what made him start waking at 6 in the first place?

I haven't really taken too much notice of sleep times recently so maybe I need to again - I stopped keeping a log at 12 months and we'd been cruising along happily on 1 nap, not much seemed to effect his nights and life was coooool!

My feeling is that he possibly is ready for less sleep overall, but also that by not picking it up straight away he's got OT. So I guess fix the OT in the short term and then revisit his daytime to see what helps.

This weekend has been a typical pickle. I got him to bed early (ish) on Friday - he was asleep by 7.30 and woke at 7, so 11.5 which is the longest for a few weeks. Then by 11.30 yesterday morning he was a mess - we were out so he slept in the car for 40 minutes. Then he slept in the car again on the way home from 4.30 til 5.10 and I let him cos of thinking OT, so then of course last night at 7 he wasn't the slightest bit tired - I had to get him up for an hour - he went down at 8.30. Then woke at 6 this morning But then, to add to the confusion, he cruised through the morning happy as larry, cruised through lunch and then went to the bottom of the stairs at about 1.30, so we put him down and he's still out now.

C (?) once you got over the OT, did you still feel you needed to cut down daytime sleep?

Hi Sherry  Long time no speak - I've been so busy with work I don't have much time here atm.

H

[sherry lynn]

Helen - I think you have a really good plan. Over come the OT and then revisit daytime sleep. I also think I need to cut down daytime sleep (maybe to 2 hours max) Thinking about doing a quiz about it to see how most people have been getting on at about this age.

I would keep a log to see if you see any patterns.

Oh, just to let you know. ANY time he takes two naps now it means EW the next day, not matter how long the naps were, no matter what time I put him to bed. Even when he got pretty sick that happened I thought, well.... he's sick, he needs another nap. NOPE. up 5:30 the next morning

For now, I would say have him down by 1. He might actually be OT by the time he is showing tired signs. I don't think I know of many LO who have more than 6 hours A time in the morning, or at night. We tend to do 5 hours in the morning and 5-6 hours A time at night.

Maybe try to stick to a more strict routine for a few days and see if it irons out.

This is what Charm has been doing lately and I think it's working well.
wake 7
Nap 1-3 (Sometimes K sleeps until 4) 
Bedtime 7:30

What do you think?

[babymunkey]

Sherry - I think that's a good plan - I think for now I'll say put him down at between 12.30 and 1, let him sleep as long as he wants, then if we can get back to a reasonable wake-up and 11.5 hour nights (even better if back to 12hrs) I'll get her to wake him by 2.30 at the latest, so we have max 1.5 hrs daytime sleep and 5 hours before 7.30 bedtime......

[clazzat]

We haven't really cut down day sleep at all - she still sleeps 2-2.5 hours at lunchtime, up at 7.15ish, bed at 7ish.  She's 30 months now, and I am expecting her to need less sleep soon, but while she is still sleeping at night I have no intention of changing things!  

[sherry lynn]

Helen - I would wait to cut back the sleep too, unless he doesn't get back on track, then you might need to.

[babymunkey]

Hi ladies - back for an update.

I've asked the childminder to put him down earlier - it worked for a few days and we got a 6.45 and a 7 wake-up. But for the last 3 nighs we've been back to the old pattern.

So his routine is now nap at 12.30 (regardless of wake-up - which has been between 6 and 6.30) he's still sleeping for 1.5 to 2 hours, which is great (and we're not cutting it short).  I'm aiming ot have him in bed by 7. so that allowing for bedtime performances he'll hopefully be asleep by 7.30. But I've played around with this and doesn't seem to make any difference - ;ast 3 nights its taken up to an hour to get him to sleep.

So I'm wondering if the problem is the other way round - there's something going on at bedtime which is then causing the OT and the EWx - see what I mean?

Any more ideas?

H

[sherry lynn]

H - Have you tried a bedtime of 7:30. I think most of us with LO this age are doing at the earliest a 7:30 bedtime now.
WDYT?
I think he is UT at bedtime and the gets OT, therefore and EW. Does that make sense.

If you are worried that he will get OT with a 30 min jump try 7:15 for 3 days, then go to 7:30

[babymunkey]

We were doing 7.30 bedtime before all this started, but now cos its taking so long for him to go down and because he's having an earlier nap, I'm putting him down at 7 to make sure he's asleep by 7.30.........was a bit better tonight.

But I agree he's definitely behaving like he's UT cos he's dossing around and giggling and jumping up and down, or else he's screaming

[sherry lynn]

hmmm.... then I would still give 7:15 a shot.

My guess would be that he was catching up those first 3 days. And now he's ready for a little later bedtime. I'm glad that the naps are going well though. I hope he gets back to waking a little later for you.

[babymunkey]

So 7.15 worked a charm on the night we tried it. It didn't make any difference to the wake-up time though 6 am I think it was.....

We had a busy weekend so Saturday, Sunday and Monday evenings he went down really well as he was really tired. Wake-ups were between 6 and 6.30 frm bedtime between 7.15 and 7.30.

Yesterday he woke at 6.20, napped from 1 til 2.20 in the car, then asleep in the car by 7.10 on the way home, and he slept til 7.15 - yay!!

Then today, nap from 1 til 2.50, and then back to the bedtime performance like last week - he just wasn't tired......

So I guess my next plan is to try to limit his daytime sleep not after 2.30 - but then if he wakes up early he can go down for his nap earlier, but still no sleep after 2.30.

Good plan?

[sherry lynn]

I think that should work. Let me know how it goes. I have a thread going and all of us on it are noticing that our LO are really only doing about 10.5 at night, so I think you are having a similar with that last A time also having an effect. Good luck.

[babymunkey]

Good results 1st attempt - so night before was 8 pm (in bed at 7.15 took til 8 to go to sleep) til 6.30.

So yesterday the CM limited his sleep - he went down at 12.30 for his nap and she woke him at 2.30.

Bedtime was much better - in bed at 7.20, small fuss but much shorter than oterh nights and asleep by 7.40ish.

Then woke at 7.15 today  - despite me being up to 6.45 and having been in the shower - so good start.

Where's your thread Sherry will pop over and join in...

H