Time for a set nap time? OR Limit Daytime Sleep? Set Bedtime?

[sherry lynn]

Hey Kirry - I have pretty much been following your nap window idea. (unless things are way different for some reason) and that's been working a treat for nap length. He does best if he goes down between 11-11:30. But I have to have to have to move this forward if I'm going to do a later bedtime to get a later waking. But really the window is more of an A time. He is STUCK at 5 hours A time. If I stick to the 5 hours he'll give me at least a 2.5 hour nap. If I try to push him he wakes between 1.5 and 1.75 into the nap and is cranky cranky cranky!! Having said that if he wakes early I don't put him down before 11, unless he's having a meltdown. So he'll do 5.5 today and hopefully he'll be ok.
Bedtime window is 7:15-7:45

Jen - I am in total agreement with you right now!!!

Jean - I forgot to answer your question. This is the pattern right now. I try to push Lyle, like I did last week and he takes really bad naps. Then I got back to 5 hours A time and he takes terrific naps. Same as with Jen, a shorter nap length has not really meant a better night. Therefore, I've come to the conclusion that I need a bedtime like you and Kirry have of about 8:30 to get at least a 6:30 wake up.

[huntersmummyinoz]

sherry, if you've tried and he got OT, then go in 5 min increments. so nap window moves to 11.05 to 11.35. but also add another 5 mins to any other part of his routine, so breaky, lunch, dinner all 5 mins later, start bedtime routine 5 mins later and bedtime then moves 5 mins later too. that way you will keep moving towards the later bedtime as the nap nudges later. give it 3 to 5 days, then add another 5 mins. or you could move it in 10min increments, but i would give him a whole week before adding another 10 mins. so rather than adding more first A time, you are trying to shift his whole day forward in order to get a better wake up.

[sherry lynn]

I just went and got my log because I truly don't remember the wake up times this week.

So I'll answer Jean question and Kirry's here:

Last few days
3h20m  nap, late bedtime. 10 hours night sleep that night for a wake up of 7:00

2h47m nap, in bed 7:45 asleep 8:24, again 10 hour night
wake 6:28   2h30m nap in bed 7:28 asleep 7:48
had a very rough night. I think it was teething, and or, uncomfortable because of grobag
NW was at least 1.5 hours
So awake 7:00
4 hour nap
in bed 8:15 asleep 8:56 (this was also the day he had 6+ BAD diapers, also still acted tired after nap. I actually think he was OT at bedtime. Maybe it was the sensitivity to bedtime like Kirry said>

awake 4:30 am
Nap 11-1:38
In Bed 7:30    (screaming and hollering at bedtime, we had guests though, so???)
Asleep 8:00

Awake 6:17
nap 11:22-1:53 (2.5)
In bed 7:25 Again screaming and hollering at bedtime.
Asleep 8:03

I was doing 5.5 hours - 6 hours A time before bed, and gauging on tiredness level. But he seems to want a later bedtime now.

Wake 5:57, so just shy of 10 hours.
Nap 11:12-2:12 I woke him
In bed 7:55 - asleep 8:12
Awake 5:35

A few weeks ago I decided to only let him nap 2.5 and then he was doing 10 hours a night even on 2h45m nap, so I went back to waking him at 3 hours. But I think in light of last night I need to go back to no more than 2.5.

Jen - has Sophie been doing 2 hours, or 2.5?

[sherry lynn]

Ok, so Kirry you saying to make it a little more regimented for awhile so that I can sort of force him to push the day up slowly.

Since he woke so early today, what do you think I should do for nap time?
The last two days have been 11:10ish.

[huntersmummyinoz]

sherry, i still think use your judgement based on his tired cues, BUT keep it within the nap window, and just make that window slightly longer than usual. last night could have been an OT EW as he was in bed a bit later than the previous 3 nights. so if he woke just before 6am this morning, then nap at 11.05 rather than 11 (still nudges him into the new nap window but only an extra 5 mins)

jen, we have had the same thing. two days can be identical but an hour difference in the wake up time, so frustrating!!!

[sherry lynn]

Ok, sounds good. Wish me luck.

I'm guessing bedtime window goes to 7:25-7:50

Yeah, I was thinking maybe OT waking also, but about a week ago he went to bed at 9 and still did his 10 hours. usually I can push bedtime a little bit for one or to nights in a row and then the 3rd night will be hell. Same with naps, I can push his A time for 2 days and then the 3rd day will be hell. So today will be the 2nd day of pushing the nap, so hopefully I'll be ok.
The other reason I'm leaning towards it not being OT is in the past 3 hour naps did = 9 hour nights, that's why I cut it to 2.5, but then we got into OT hell for other reasons, so I was too chicken to do it, but I know that's not the right answer.

Sorry to blab so much today, guys. Just finally getting my nerve up again to do something about it

[sherry lynn]

Oh, I forgot to mention:
He woke up laughing this morning. That's right. Laughing. It was actually pretty cute. He's also started babbling a lot again. So hoping that some new words are coming soon. I didn't go get him until 7:00
He was also happy to stay in bed once DH went and gave him his paci.
So two more signs that it wasn't OT.

[huntersmummyinoz]

yeah prob the long nap sherry as it's about the same total amount of sleep for the day. and defo not OT if he woke that happy

[sherry lynn]

Gals, I just had a thought.

What if we have a chat place in the lounge. I don't use the lounge, but that seems like the perfect place.
I'm going to start one, and see if they will accept it. I'll be back to post the think.

[sherry lynn]

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=152620.0

[sherry lynn]

Ok guys,
I know you are so tired of hearing from me today. But I am sooooo frustrated.

Day one of pushing Lyle isn't going so well.
I figured that we've been doing bedtime at about 11:10 so I would put him down at 11:10. He went down fine. Didn't seem OT too badly.

He has woken up several times during the nap. And he's up for good, already.

Nap 11:17
rolled around a couple of times
then he woke up at 12:39.
Went back to sleep after a few minutes by himself.
then up for good at 12:57.

I am sooo frustrated. I know that if I would have put him down at say 10:45 he would probably have slept 3 hours and I would have had to wrestle with the idea of waking him up at 2.5 hours.

Now it's a long long time until bedtime.

What time should I put him to bed.
7:00 has been a battle recently
7:30 has been a battle   but both of these have been after good naps, even if they were earlier in the day.
and 7:45 will most likely be too late.

It's been a few days since I've had a nap that's this bad and up this early.

Ideas any one?

[huntersmummyinoz]

I'm guessing bedtime window goes to 7:25-7:50

if this is your new bedtime window, i'd go with 7.25 or a few mins earlier if he is falling apart. i guess it's really a decision of whether to deal with OT at bedtime and maybe some nw or put him down early and have him up early (but...if he goes to bed OT that could happen anyway). sorry i really am no help!! with hunter i just stick to normal bedtime within 15 mins if he has had more than an hours sleep. if he has a super short nap then if i put him down 30mins earlier he will actually make it up in nightsleep now, this never used to happen!

[jennandsophie]

That's a tough one Sherry.  We usually stick with 7 - 7:30pm bedtime no matter what happens.   Sophie may protest, but we stick with it. 

Today was worse nap day ever.  30 mins only at school.  Way OT and uncooperative tonight.  Bedtime at 7:00pm.  We'll see what the night brings. 

Sherry, to answer your question, I find 2hrs for nap is perfect.  Any more and we get a shorter night.  However, we're not strict on that.  Like you, we don't want to wake her up.  However, we usually don't let it go much past 2.5hrs or bedtime is tough.

[~Karen~]

Sherry - Hugs.  You'll figure that boy out one day!  Hope he has a good night for you tonight.  They've already stopped that thread btw!

Jenn - Hope your night works out ok for you.

We has a solid 10 hour night and then a 2 hour nap today.  It's 715pm here and he's in bed but not asleep yet.  He's calling out a bit but I'm not going to go in unless he starts crying.....

[sherry lynn]

Karen - we had about the same bedtime. In bed 7:10 a little fuss, but didn't have to go in. Asleep 7:35. So we shall see how the night goes.

I'm tired so I'm not going to comment on the thread right now. But I just wanted to throw an idea out there for you guys.

In a message from the Mods it sounds like we just can not have a "chat" thread. It was suggested to me that we do a yahoo group or something like that.

I don't really do yahoo group or anything, but maybe we could start a facebook page, or something like that. What do you think?