please help me - i go back to work in 7 wks - desperate!

[mummy2millie]

Hello all - i am starting another thread out of sheer desperation - night times with my baby girl are getting worse! SDo upset with it all that everytime she woke last night i cried! Thing is, i am due back at work in July and am worring about how i'll cope so anyhelp would be wonderful.

Some of you may know that Amelia is 17 weeks and has reflux - this is under control with meds and i am sure it is NOT the reason for the NW.

Here is yesterdays routine:

Woke 7am

E 7.20am 20Z - ALWAYS TAKES LESS IF FED IN NIGHT!
A
S 9 - 11:10AM (WOKE HALF WAY BUT SHUSSED BACK TO SLEEP)

E 12PM - hALF OF FEED - DUE TO DOC APPOINTMENT (6OZ )
E 12PM - REST OF FEED AT DOC SURGERY
A
S 1.30PM - 3.10PM - WOKEN BY KNOCK AT DOOR

E 4PM 5 0Z PLUS SMALL AMOUNT OF SOLIDS AT 4.45PM - BABY RICE - PEDIATRICIAN WANTS HER  WEANED EARLY TO HELP REFLUX.
A  INCLUDES BEDTIME ROUTINE, BATH, MASSAGE,BOTTTLE.
S 7.30PM - ON BOTTLE

8.20PM  Woke up. I thought it may be because she didn't take all her bedtime bottle, but no, i offered the rest she didn't want it - put her straight back in cot and she fell asleep after about 5mins.

11.34pm - Woke up - settled back to sleep with a little help.

12.54am - Woke again - thought she might be hungry due to only taking 3 oz at bedtime - fed her but she wasn't really hungry - only took 3oz again and didn't want rest so back into cot.

01.45 - Woke again - would not settle so put her in with me as i was soo tired by now! Fell back to sleep after whinging for about 15 - 20 mins on and off.

05.00am - Awake again - gave her a dummy and she went back of after whinging on and of till nearly 6am.

7.20AM - Woke for the day.

E 7.50AM 6 0Z
Thing is, i really don't think her NW are due to hunger, plus if she does feed during the night (properly) she wont feed when she wakes up. She took a full feed thismorning as she didn't feed so much during the night. I think she is ready to stop feeding at night but she wakes so much, it is the only way i can get some sleep. I really don't want to get into the habit of putting her in our bed but i an so tired - this has been going on for weeks!

Amelia can handle long A times - always averaged more then suggested for her age. Also, i read somewhere that a long nap in the morning can become an extension of babies night - i always have to wake her at the 2hr mark - could that be the prob? She always wakes around 5am no matter what time she goes to bed or feeds during the night and is then restless and whinging on and of - usually falls back to sleep till 6.30/7am with a dummy..I have tried keeping her up a little later and putting her down earlier - it is next to impossible to get her to take a cat - nap unless we are out in the car.


 Please help me - i feel like i am going crazy through lack of sleep - and ia m back to work in 7 weeks!

Thanks, Kerrie.

[mummy2millie]

Excuse bad typing and spelling - typing quicly as Amelia is quiet for 5 mins!

[Barbaara]

Hi Kerrie, sorry you're having such a rough time! Hugs!

If I'm reading your routine correctly, her last A time was 4h20 which I think is waaay too long.  She's probably seriously OT by the time she goes to bed and that may contribute to the NW's and the EW.  What happens when you try to get her to take a catnap?

Also I would probably stop feeding her at night, as you say she probably only needs it to fall asleep again.  Does shh/pat work for you? Have you tried PU/PD?  What happens when your husband tries to settle her at night?  Sometimes that helps because she won't expect to get fed by him.

First nap can indeed become an extension of their night.  That's why you try to push first nap back as far as possible (without letting them become OT) and it's probably a good idea to limit it as well.

How's today going so far?

Barbara
x

[mummy2millie]

Thankyou for helping x

I agree that she must be OT by bedtime, but she fights a catnap so badly it can take longer then the nap itself to get her to go to sleep - plus it is at the time when i am trying to cook my elder childs dinner after school. I f we nip out to the shop or somewhere she will fall asleep in car/pram but this isn't always possible. I can get her to nap if i do a bit of AP but i know that isn't wise!

So today we got up at 7.20am, she fed at 7.50am - this is what makes me think she doesn't really need a night feed as she hadn't been fed since 1am and even then she only had 3oz, yet she was happy to lay on her mat for sme nappy off time while i made a cup of tea, got Joshua his breakie and made her bottle. I t was at least 20 mins before she began whinning for her feed - and she took a full 60z which she would not have done if she took a full feed at night. The night before last, for example, she fed at 3.30am and tolok 5oz. Then when she got up at 7, she would not touch her bottle till 7.30 and even then she only took 2 oz.

She has just gone down for a nap after fighting it for 20 mins, as i want to avoid the OT cycle! So she had an A time of 2.5 hrs. That is preety normal for her - sometimes it is longer depending on what time she wakes for the day as i have to gewt my son to school so cant put her down before 9am on a school day! You suggest limiting am nap - how long to? She normally takes around 2 hrs - would often take 3 or more if i let her!

Ok, it seems she is better for OH. I went to my mums a couple of nights ago to try and catch up on some sleep. I did the bedtime routine and left once she was asleep. She woke briefly at 10pm, though OH thinks phone may have woke her. She went back of with dummy. She then woke at 12.45am, but OH said he hst repositioned her in cot (she ends up lenght ways across the bottom of cot) and she went back off till 3.30am, fed and was asleep again within 15mins and stayed asleep till 6.30am - she always wakes by 5 for me? But, she only drank 2 0z at breakfast - due to nightfeed i am guessing?

I havn't tried PUPD - not too sure how that works? Shh patt used to work, but seems to be getting less effective as she gets older? She can selth soothe but just wont is she wakes at night. She often does if she wakes part way through a nap and usiually does at bedtime - unless she has fallen asleep on bottle. She put herself back to sleep when she woke at 8.20pm last night.

How do i stop the night feeds? Sometimes she she is genuinly hungry and drains the bottle - but it's a vicious cycle as she then wont feed once up for the day!!!!!

Agai, thanks for helping me.

[mummy2millie]

Again, sorry about baaaad spelling, typing....bloodshot eyes and lack of sleep lol x

[Barbaara]

I would limit am nap to 1h30.  I noticed with my DD (who can handle really long A times as well: 3h -3h10 at the moment  ) that letting her sleep too long during the day would cause NW's because she was too well rested before bed.  Fighting a nap for about 20-30 mins is a sign is put her down too early.  Could this be the case with your LO?

Also I you have to do a little AP to get a catnap then that's what I would to to prevent OT.  As long as that's the only time you do AP, then it shouldn't be a problem I think.

About the night feeds: if she's genuinely hungry than you should definitely feed her, but try to make SURE she's hungry.  I wouldn't worry too much about her not having a lot during her first feed.  Apparently at this age it's normal to still have to feed once a night. Have you ever tried to DF?  Although I don't know it's wise to introduce it at this age?  Hopefully somebody else can give you some advice on this one.

Shh/pat doesn't work for us anymore as well.  Worked like a charm when she was only a couple of weeks old, but it's lost its magic.  When you decide to do PU/PD you'll have to be really determined to stick it out, because it's hard work!  Maybe it's best to get a thread going on the PU/PD board to get the best help, because I'm probably not the best person to get advice from on PU/PD.  I tend to avoid it as long as possible! 

What does 'OH' mean?

Barbara
x

[mummy2millie]

Sorry OH meant other half AKA Hubbie.

I guess i may have put her down too early - she had started to yawn, though. I have tried to DF and it worked like a charm for two nights - she slept soundly till 3/4am, fed abd then slept till 6/7am. Then it went downhill and she started waking before the feed and having lots more NW. Mind you, she is still having them now, so maybe it wasn't due to the DF - i thought it was disrupting her sleep rythem and causing NW but now i'm not so sure?

Thing is, with the hunger, it's hard to tell at night unless i offer her the bottle, as all her cries really do sound the same! Unless she is hysterical - not often that happens.


If she woke for the day at 7am, what time would you say she should be taking her first nap? She seems to need long As or she'll wake within 40-50 mins.

[Barbaara]

You say she'll normally do about 2h30?  Then I would try 2h45 for a couple of days.  Also at this age signs of boredom begin to resemble signs of tiredness.    DD plays the same trick on me!    Try stretching it by doing a very low key activity (walking around in the house, looking out window,...).

It may have been the DF, it doesn't work for everybody.  It works really well for us, so I don't really know what you should do.   

When she wakes up at night, is she crying right away?  Do you wait to see what will happen or do you kind of rush in there?  What happens if you try to get her to fall asleep again? 

[mummy2millie]

I usually wait a min or two. She is in with us so can kinda lay and see what happens. Normall it starts of with fidgeting with the odd cry out/grunt, then quiet for a moment, if she doesn't go back off i will pop dummy in. Sometimes works sometimes doesn't. Occasionally i can just dsay shhhshhhh from my bed and she will quiet down. If i try and get her back to sleep she normally protests which is when i try the dummy. If i think she is hungry, i go straight downstairs to warm bottle - she is normally rather 'cross' by the time i get back up! Lol.

She used to sleep really well - would feeed around 8.30 sleep till almost 4 and then feed and sleep till around 7am. However, she never used to nap very well - just the odd 30 - 50 mins here and there. Now she does, she sleeps poorly at night? I had to bring her bedtime forwrd as she was getting grumpy earlier in the evening, plus my 9yr old son was getting no time atall...Now she goes to bed between 7 and 7.30.

[Barbaara]

Maybe she's getting too much sleep during the day?  How much is her nap time averaging in total during the day?

Could the fact that she's still in your room have anything to do with her waking up?

[mummy2millie]

Hi. I don't think she is getting to much sleep - not according to the guidlines anyway, but maybe she is one of those babies that needs less - she normally averages about 3 - 4 hrs. One 2 hr nap, 0ne afternnon nap of around 1 - 1/2 hrs and sometimes a cat nap of 20 - 30 mins.

I did wonder if the sleeping arrangments were causing her to wake but i don't think so - i have tried sleeping in another room and although i don't hear all the fidgeting, she still wakes frequently.

[Barbaara]

My DD also needs less than the general guidelines. I never let her take a 2h nap anymore as that would cause NW's, I always wake her up after 1h30.  And I try to keep her total naptime under 3h.

How have naps been today?  Did she fall asleep well tonight?

Barbara
x

[mummy2millie]

Ok, i took your advice and only allowed her to nap for 1 1/2 hours at the am nap. She then had about an hour around 1pm and managed a 20 min cat nap at 5, so hoping that helps her NW. Also, i managed a 12 hr day. She was in her cot and soothing herself to sleep at 7.15pm - she had woke for the day at that time too. She went down with minimal fuss and soothed herself to sleep from wide awake.

Just wondered, do you think i should give the dream feed another bash? I had put these NW down to introducing a DF but they have continued since stopping it so now i am not sure - plus the first two nights of the DF worked really well as she slept till around 3/4 am rather then waking at around 12am.

Also, if i did retry the DF, what time would you feed again if she woke?

[Barbaara]

That's really good news she went to sleep on her own!!  Here's hoping for a really good night! 

I've seen some advice on this website to wait at least 4h before giving another feed at night.  If they wake up before that you're not supposed to feed. However, since you know LO can last longer without a feed during the night, I would probably do at least 5-6h.  Don't know if this is the right advice though, it's just what I would probably try.

I'll talk to you again tomorrow, almost time to do DF and then bed!! 

[mummy2millie]

Ok, so last night was alittle better - she slept soundly /9aside from crying out once) from her 7pm feed till about 1am - so six hrs. I waited as at first it was just a mantra cry but it did escalate within a few mins so i tried to shh her back off, she did fall back to sleep but with her dummy. I repeated this once more at 2am and managed to get her to 3am, at which point i fed her as it had been 8 hrs since last feed. She went straight back off and got up for the day at 6.30am. However, she did and ALWAYS does wake at 5am - she is def not ready to get up at this point as she in whinning with her eyes shut - i gave her the dummy and she went back off to sleep. Reaaly don't know what could be causing her to wake around 5am everday?

Have been reading 'babywhisperer solves your problems' and she talks of a case where a little girl is waking at night so parents have to DF her then not feed her again till 5 and use PU PD to get her back to sleep - apparantly within a few fays she was sleeping from DF till at least 5am. Was wondering whether to try that as i know she can go at least 6 hrs without feeding, but she normally does her longest stretch from 7am, so i don't really bennefit from it as am unable to got to bed with her as i have an older child (9yrs). What do you think?

Also, she actually took nearly 6 oz of milk at 7am even though she fed at 3am - that is unusual!