Crying during wind down, hands out to soothe??

[Maggieo]

Hi.
My 5 month old has started balking our usual wind down/sleep routine and has started crying while we're doing it (which she almost never did before). Our usual is...go in turn on fan, get blanket and wrap her in blanket (though not swaddled). Then we walk and listen to quiet music. Then we do sh-pat to go to sleep. She has no prob with transition and sleeping. It's just the winding down part. I haven't been able to stand totally still to do the sh-pat b/c she will cry really hard if I don't move a little at least. I'm trying to gradually stop moving and shift over to stationary sh-pat.  I started this routine b/c I previously when I tried to stand still she went ballistic. Anyway, now she's started crying while we listen to music or if I just walk and do sh-pat. Most of the time I have to move or else she launches in to major crying not just mantra. I've tried unswaddled, swaddled, moving/not moving while doing sh-pat and sometimes nothing works. Last few days she escalates and gets hysterical no matter what I try. I'm not sure what to do. 
My other issue is I don't know if I should be swaddling her sooner in the process? Also, am I ok to still be swaddling though she's 5 months. She seems to do better swaddled. Tried one arm out yesterday and her usual 2 hour nap was only 45 mins. So, I don't think she's ready for unswaddling yet. But on her way to sleep I leave her hands out so she can self-soothe but I feel like she only escalates more with hands out.
Thanks for any advice you may have.

[aimeeL]

Hi!  Sorry for the recent change in behavior - I know that always gets me down...!  Can you post your routine so we can see if perhaps it needs some tweaking?  Sometimes LOs who are UT or OT can balk at going down...

I think it's still fine to swaddle if your DD has a need for it... just want to be careful, I think, as she gets more adept at rolling over... but you say you leave her hands out anyways, so I think it's fine...

[Maggieo]

Ok thanks for the tip on the swaddling. Actually, I'm not leaving her hands out while she's sleeping. They're swaddled in. But she's not rolling yet. I'll keep trying one arm out though over the next few weeks. So far, if I leave an arm out, she either won't fall asleep or stay asleep. On that topic, I don't know if I should try swaddling her with both arms in before the sh-pat or leave one arm out to soothe. I feel like she does worse with one arm out but is that something they have to learn or is it something they can do once they're ready?

As for the schedule she goes mostly a little more than 2 hours during activity time.
6:30 wake
7:00 eat
7:20 activity
8:40 sleep
11:00 wake/eat
11:30 activity
1:35 sleep
3:00 wake/eat
3:30 activity
5:15 sleep
6:30 eat
7:00activity/bath
8:30 eat/sleep
3:30 eat/sleep
6:30 wake

[cazzieclarity]

Hiya!
I've just posted on this board asking several questions, one being around the swaddle. My LO is 5mths and we are still swaddling big time! I've tried cold turkey but it was a disaster, tried Aussie swaddle but she was still able to rub her face too much so woke up. I think I'm going to have to start weaning her from it soon!

Just thought I'd mention though, my LO used to love shhpat, but very quickly became intolerant of it. BW book says that it doesn't always work once they reach 6mths as it can be too distracting for them and I've found this now with my LO. Could this perhaps be the same with yours?

Carrie

[aimeeL]

Ok - first off, the swaddle.... I think in general, you wait for them to be ready to be out of it, yet at the same time, you can also "help" them get to that pt, ykwim?  We weaned our LO from the swaddle at around 4 mo because she was breaking out of it constantly and we were having to get up several times a night to reswaddle her.  So I did one arm out for her best nap for a couple weeks, then one wkend just cold turkeyed it. If you're going to do the one arm out, you might want to stay close by as she's going to sleep and help by holding down that arm if it starts to flail too much.  We had to do that the first couple wks after we swaddle weaned - especially if she was OT...  then gradually, we were able to stop "helping".

Am a little confused still about your WD routine - sorry... So you walk in, turn off lights, turn on music, and walk... right?  When do you actually swaddle her?  Also, are you shh/patting while walking?  Have you tried putting her in the crib before and shh/patting in the crib only?  Or perhaps, like pp said, the shh/pat is now too distracting?  I have gone to just a shhh with my LO now... sometimes I put my hand on her chest or legs, but no more patting...

From your EASY, it looks like your LO is getting 10 hrs of night sleep?  Have you tried bumping the bedtime routine up a bit in order to get more nighttime sleep?  You could try cutting down a bit on the CN and moving bt up?  What do you think?  Also - maybe try 2 hr 15 in of A time for the first one and see if she doesn't fight you as much going down?

Keep us posted!

[cazzieclarity]

Hiya,
Hope you don't mind me jumping in but can I ask what signs I will get for when she is ready to be out of the swaddle? Is it mostly when they've mastered hand eye coordination?
Thanks
Carrie

[aimeeL]

Yup - that, and I think being able to control their arms better... My LO was still flailing a bit, but not nearly so much as from 0-3 mo... I think another you look for is if they start sucking on their hands and start to find that soothing...

[Maggieo]

Wow thanks you guys! You are really helpful and I can't believe how fast people respond on here. I guess you know how it feels since you've been in the trenches. Much appreciated!!
So, my WD looks like this. I go in,turn lights down, turn fan on, then either play music or sing while walking and her blanket is around her but not swaddled or swaddled with one arm out. Then, when she seems ready to go to sleep (lately she's started arching), I lay her in the crib and swaddle her both arms in. If she doesn't fuss too much I start sh-pat in crib. If she cries, I take her out and do sh-pat. Depending on the level of crying, I sometimes walk or sway while sh-pat. And then I keep doing pu/pd. Overall, nothing is consistent yet. Sometimes she stays in the crib and falls asleep with sh-pat and sometimes I have to pu/pd. But even sometimes in the crib at this point is awesome!!! My goal is to fade out the movement out of the sh-pat first and then focus on pu/pd with her in the crib more and more. So far at least we're seeing progress. She's crying less and going down in less time...

Re: the 2h 15mins of A, I think that will work better than only 2 hrs...

As for the swaddle, really she does well with it with both arms in. And when I leave an arm out, she flails it a lot and I feel like though she gets her hand and even her thumb easily, it's not soothing yet. So, I'm guessing it means she's not quite ready.
But, good to know about the helping her with the arm so it doesn't flail. I'll try that next time.

Do I need to worry about her being swaddled once she can roll over?
Thanks again!!

[marlowsmom]

For what its worth, my LO started crying when it was time for our usual WD.   I would cradle her and sh/pat but she got very tired of this.    I transfered her to the shoulder and as soon as she closed her eyes I put her in the crib.      She may not want the entire WD routine that you have been doing; she may be ready for the crib as soon as she closes her eyes.

[aimeeL]

Good - glad to hear she's crying less and going down more easily.  Don't want to mess with something that perhaps you've been doing since day 1, but it might be worth trying to swaddle at the beginning of the WD, rather than in the crib??  That way she can go straight in the crib to sleep - rather than there being one more step??  That might streamline the WD - sort of like what pp said...?  Just a thought...

Yup, my LO was like that for quite sometime, too... she had "found" her thumb and her hands, but they were NOT soothing to her yet...

I don't think I'd want my LO rolling and still swaddled.. mostly because when she started rolling, she was not very good at it... so would get "stuck" easily and often... I also think she needed her arms out in order to get into a position where she could turn her head, so I'd be worried about that if she was swaddled.  I know that there are some people on here whose LOs still needed to be swaddled, though, even after the rolling stage, so they just went to more of a loose swaddle - arms in the sleep sack, etc..  That might work for you if you're still swaddling once she starts rolling more... you can probably post on the Props board and they'd give you more ideas..

Let us know how the A time stretching goes... like I said, it might get your bt earlier as well??  Keep us posted!