21 month old NWs an lots of crying at bedtime!

[kasirak]

Hello - been a while since i posted but our NW issues still haven't gone away and now with a 5 wk old new baby i really need some help please!!

My lil girl has never been a great sleeper but lately NW's have been constant (probably over last 3 months) an i'm in process of trying to fix but not sure if our routine is right or even bedtime routine!!

Here's what we do now:
7am - wake up
12.30 - 2  nap - i have to wake her as if she sleeps more than hour an half she won't sleep at night
8pm - bedtime

over the past 3 days i have put her in her cot for naps and bedtime and sat in the same room until she falls asleep. for naps it takes her about 10-15mins and she is asleep. Bedtime has been a nightmare!! She will play for at least half hour (i start settling at 7.30 so she is still playing by 8pm !!) then come 8.15 she gets so tired and frustrated she starts screaming constantly for Mama. i try an soothe her but she just ends up crying herself to sleep apart from the other night where she actually made herself sick. i cleaned her up put her back in cot and she eventually fell asleep! usually she is asleep by 8.30 but last night was 8.45.

We had 2 nights of success where no NWs but then last night she was up at 5am where she came into my bed and then slept 6am - 7.30.

so my questions are:

1. is this the correct routine for almost 2yr old? she is tired by nap time (maybe OT?) but shud i try 12-1.30 and see if that helps her fall asleep quicker at bedtime?

2. When i am settling her what do i do when she is playing in cot? leave her to it?

3. When she calls for mama in her cot (not crying just trying to engage with me) what do i do?

4. She is very good at standing in cot and throwing her toys out (lol!) do i lie her back down or leave her to it? and same for when she is sat up - do i lie her back down or leave her to it?

5. Finally when she loses it and screaming is it ok to comfort by rubbing her back and saying 'it's ok Mama's here' as thats what i've been doing!

i am committed to seeing this thru now until we can get her sleeping and in decent routine (i'm at home now on maternity leave so can ensure we stick to same routine every day) so any help anyone can give me would be so gratefully received!!!!

Thank you xxx

[leosmommy]

Hi, I have a few suggestions for you, and i'll reply to your questions.
1) I would try an earlier nap, 12 like you say and ssee what happens.
2) Let her play in her cribif she is happy.  She will get tired and falls asleep eventually.  My son would sometimes play for up to an hour before going to sleep.  I just left him.
3) Do not go in or respond when she calls for you. 
4) If she throws the toys over i would go in 1 time and replace them and say if you throw the toys out again, mommy won't be baack to put them in.. something like that.  My son would do the same, but wouldn't sleep cause he'd be distressed baout the toys over the edge.  He soon learned that if he threw them after the one timei'd put them back, then they were gone. he stopped throwing them.
5) no.  I think that gives her the attention for screaming and having a fit, so she's getting what she wants.... but i dont' know what else i'd do!!
sorry if i'm not much help

[Francy&Ricky]

Hi there!

Just want to say I'm with you.   

DS is almost 21 months and I've been fighting for the last 21 mos against very similar sleep problems.

And I am experiencing that same throw stuff out thing; he does it with his paci...

Good luck and keep in touch! 

[kasirak]

hi - thanks for the replies and support ... greatly received!

well wot a change tonight! Today she woke at 7.30am (after a brief 4.45am wake up then bak to sleep) so she went down for nap at 1pm. i only let her sleep for an hour so she would still be ready for 8pm bedtime. i started settling her at 7.45pm (thought try settling her later so she not playing as much) and she protested as soon as i put her in her cot. so i said it's ok Mama will sit here and i sat next to her cot. she finished her milk and started crying a bit and her just stroked her hair a bit and let her settle then she drifted off to sleep just after 8!!

i'm not sure if i have started something else by sitting with her and probably have to go thru gradual withdrawal process now (can anyone help me with that?) but i am just so happy she went to sleep after just 20 mins and hardly any crying 

lets hope we get a full nite's sleep tonite now.

so should i stick to same routine tomorrow or try an early nap?? oh why is it so hard!! i just hope this huge learning curve saves us from doing it again with our new baby!!!

Thanks again xxx

[kasirak]

Well so much for success ... was extremely short lived!! DD was up at 11.30pm then at 2.30am!!

Today i have put her to bed at 12.15pm for a nap and will give her 1hr 45mins as she is extremely OT (you wanna see the bags under eyes ... starting to look worse than mummy's!!). then will try for 8pm bedtime again - or is this too late 6 hrs from napwake up?? Suppose i could start settling at 7.15pm and hope for 7.45pm bedtime?

Thanks again xx

[leosmommy]

8 sounds too late to me.  I would be more inclined to go WAAAY early.  I would start trying to get her to bed at 6:45-7:00 hoping she will be ASLEEP no later than 730. If you Have to start at 6:30.  I think youd be suprised how easy they go down if they aren't too OT YET. I know it sounds early, but since she's waking around 7 in the morning, has a few NW's and not a particularly long nap, she's dfinitly OT and the earlier you get her to sleep the better.  I sometimes put my son to bed early (6:30-7) if he's not napped, or had a bad night or EW etc. Another thing to consider is not waking her from her nap, and letting her wake from it on her own.  THen, aim for a bedtime around 3 to a MAX of 4 hours after she wakes. Let me know how things go!

[kasirak]

ok thanks - what i might do is just let her sleep now until she wakes then judge bedtime from there. My LO is on the short sleep scale and never really needs more than 1.5 - 2hrs in the day. if we give her more in the day then she is wide awake at 2am playing for 2 hours!!

will try and let her catch up on sleep now then try for bedtime before she is OT like you say.

i will report back and let you know what happens tonight xxx

[kasirak]

worst night ever i am afraid to say!! Managed to settle LO by 8pm for bedtime then she was up at 12.30am - 3am! the 2.5hrs nap in the day basically!

i am at my wits end now and also very sleep derived!!

i have put her down for nap at 12pm today as she was up at 6.30am and will wake her after 1.5hrs as usual. then will settle her with me like i used to and hope she has a full nite sleep with mummy tonite and gets out the OT cycle! then will try again in a few days i guess.

Maybe she is ready to drop her nap if she is wide awake for 2 hours in the nite!!

xx